RCBS scale issue
- Thread starter Shep546
- Start date
Redding measure that I have can do it -- but that really depends on the powder....
It does it easily with fine ball powder like Win748. Not as well with Varget and other extruded powders. I weigh everything for our bolt guns, and I use a RCBS chargemaster for loading 223 up quickly. The CM holds a tenth - but I drop every charge on a balance beam before dropping into brass so I can discard "anomolies" - about 2-3 out of 100 rounds seem to be a full tenth or two off of centre. Easier to just discard than fiddle.
Derrick Martin from "Accuracy Speaks" told me something once that relates to this -- if you take a pile of Federal National Match .223 - 69gr cartridges and pull the bullets - you will find powder charge variations amongst the loads as great as three and four tenths of a grain. But if you were to offer somebody a crate of the stuff on the condition that they must shoot it in the (US) Nationals (instead of their own handloads)- the answer would invariably be: "Yes, can I have that case, now?"
So much of what we do in handloading gets "lost in the noise" of shooting. Unless you are shooting benchrest, or past 600m - throwing charges is generally fine, as long as you check the occasional one to make sure the measure isn't gonig AWL on you. And with ball powders it is better than fine. I'm a firm beleiver that neck tension is a bigger variable than powder charge (within the limits of yoru average measure)
For plinking - and even for a lot of service rifle applications - just throw the powder. Would you rather weight and adjust 500 charges, or just speed through throwing them. Powder measure wins THAT game. If you want to be fussy - load up 50 each way and compare groups at 100 or 200. I bet you'd be surprised. Weighing each charge "might" show a difference - but probably so miniscule taht you can never justify the labour and eyestrain.
Damn, Trout, a voice in the wilderness. Typical powder measures throw match grade consistency, if operated with a consistent stroke. The charges in Federal Match are thrown by a measure, as is the powder in Black Hill's Gold, deemed the ne ultra plus in accuracy. Sure, some BR guys weigh each charge, but some BR guys do lots of things.
Warren Page in The Accurate Rifle writes about a whole bunch of case prep he did. One season he didn't do any of it beyond his first sort for consistency. His year long aggregate was no larger than the year before. But, next year he went back to his obsessive case prep, because it made him feel better. Same same with weighing charges!
Warren Page in The Accurate Rifle writes about a whole bunch of case prep he did. One season he didn't do any of it beyond his first sort for consistency. His year long aggregate was no larger than the year before. But, next year he went back to his obsessive case prep, because it made him feel better. Same same with weighing charges!
Also - some BR guys throw charges because they think VOLUME of powder is a bigger deal than WEIGHT or mass of powder. The debate goes on... I consider BR guys to be my own R and D Team, and they have good ideas and prove a lot of concepts in their game - but that doesn't mean that we need to be their disciples.. Different game, after all.
My short course service rifle loads are roughly prepped brass, I trim with a Giraud and it chamfers. No neck turning. Good bullets and primers, and I use Chargemaster to load Varget into them. For the 600y line, I use 80s and I double check every charge on a balance. For the other mounds I use 77s and I only double check the funny looking ones. My National Match gun shoots these loads better than I do. I could dedicate more time to loading - but I load thousands of rounds every year, and did I already mention that they shoot better than me? So I don't see the benefit of adding eye-strain to my problems.
I use the "unchecked" 77 loads for Canadian Service Rifle and the carbine parts of the Law Games. Quite frankly - the demands for accuracy aren't that onerous, and the matches have more to do with "shooting" accurately, than they do with accurate ammo or guns.
For my bolt guns, I use chargemaster and I check every round on my beam. If it deviates from balanced by any more thant he thickness of the measurement line, I discard. These are 600m-1100m loads in match grade rifles - and that is plenty of rigour in reloading. Casings are turned and sorted by weight, etc. etc. In a test at 200y using Chargemaster "unchecked" produced groups indiscernable from ones I checked. I check anyway. Ritualistic behavious, maybe -- but pepper and flys**t might make a difference after 600m.
For everything I described, I used to use a Redding measure before I shelled out for the Chargemaster combo - as I said earlier - my Redding with a micrometer powder measure threw ball powders BANG-ON -- but throwing varget and H1000 caused me to tinker with every load to get the balance I wanted. The thrower would have up to 3-5 tenths of a grain variance using the big stick powders. With Chargemaster I generally get charges that balance every time - a lot less eyestrain and waiting for beam to balance. Each graduation on my beam equates to about a tenth of a grain -- and my fanatical standard for the thickness of the line is a variance of less than half of a tenth -- probably better. RCBS Chargemaster is pretty good if it is "supervised" properly! Maybe a better beam could refine this -- but I keep coming back to one thing here -- my ammo shoots in my rifle better than I do. So since the game is about SHOOTING, not reloading... my ammo is better than "good enough" and that's all I require, right?
But I still think that for "most" applications -- the powder charge is only one variable in a big pile, and perhaps not as important as we think. I would even suggest that if you're not sorting brass by weight - that weighing the charges becomes a waste of time since the pressure variances you see with different internal volumes are probably greater than half a grain in any direction would cause...
For pistol, I use a Dillon with a powder check die and my opinion is that the Dillon powder measure thingy is a POS -- but powder charge variance in pistol loads don't make a damn bit of difference until you get way out of control and do a double load or some fool thing like that. I would load my carbine ammo on the thing if I could, but I like to hand-prime all my rifle stuff. Old habit.
PerversPépère
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And once you get your replacement pan, don't forget to take the beam off the balance and pass a folded sheet of Bounce in the space where the copper magnetic brake moves.
It will eliminate possible static buildup that can sometimes cause the beam to deflect off zero erratically.
PP.
It will eliminate possible static buildup that can sometimes cause the beam to deflect off zero erratically.
PP.
That's funny I just bought the same kit and I set everything up and went to zero the scale in but it wouldn't zero I tried for an hour ( leveling the scale, the table , went and bought a new level) then i got so frustrated I sat there looking at it with a coffee and smoke in my hand for another half an hour wondering wtf then I just happened to grab the brass pan sitting beside the scale and put it on the scale well yuricka what a dumb ass BUT ya you need the brass pan
A friend of mine, who is a forum member, did just that, and after spending a frustrating hour trying to get consistent measurements out of that silly Lee Safety scale, he went out and purchased another scale, that actually works properly. Of all of the Lee tools, their scale is probably their worst product.
I've had mine for 25 year's now, and it work's great! Settle's down a lot quicker also.
I tried an rcbs digital.It crapped out in a year's.It now sit's under the bench.
I'm a LEE guy, but to me their worst product's are the zip trim,chanfer tool and primer pocket cleaner's.
if you want to level the scale as is...take a few pellets from a shot shell..
add them to to silver tray till it levels..
once you have it close take the pellets off the silver tray..
now see that screw on on the bottom (will be on top side if looking down on scale)of the tray?
undo that screw and add the pellets with the others you see in there..
simple as ABC....
add them to to silver tray till it levels..
once you have it close take the pellets off the silver tray..
now see that screw on on the bottom (will be on top side if looking down on scale)of the tray?
undo that screw and add the pellets with the others you see in there..
simple as ABC....
