Re thinking evaluations of cut down Lee Enfields.

H4831

H4831

CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Rating - 100%
151   0   0
Location
BC
I have long been of the opinion that a cut down 303 Lee Enfield was worth $150 on a very good day, and could usually garner $75 when you wanted to get rid of it.
After reading of Buffdog pointing out all the attributes, even a cut down rifle could have, I dug one of mine out of the corner, since it seemed to be similar to that the OP talked of in that thread.
I have already told two different people who looked at it, that it was a 75-100 dollar rifle.
But when I look at it in relation to the points Buffdog made, it now appears to be prime candidate to restore!




The barrel is still full length and the bore is surprisingly very good. Something is missing off the sight, but I have spare sights like that.
Maybe someone knows what the "GP," that is stamped all over the stock means.
 
.
Look at the rear of the receiver where the bolt enters the receiver. Is it stamped "SSA" or "NRF".? This one almost looks like a "peddle scheme" rifle as there is no maker's name on the butt socket.
 
Bruce, it is a prime candidate to restore. Now the question is, WHY.

Are you doing it to restore a piece of history???

By the time you clean up the butt, acquire a fore end, front and rear upper hand guards, receiver ring for rear hand guard, stock ferrule, nose cap, proper screws to hold them in place, sling swivel and stacking swivel, you will have more money into it that what you will get out of it.

You might break even or make a slight profit but don't hold your breath.

On the other hand, you will have fun and maybe learn a lot.

SMLEs are great rifles. Some are very accurate, if they are set up properly.

The last two I put together, I had a hell of a time finding wood that the ways were OK on. Most replacement stocks have beaten out ways. Many are also missing the harmonic stabilizer spring and plunger. They need these to shoot well, when they are full wood.

I used a spring and plunger set, picked up at a gun show on a Ruger #1 International with wood to the muzzle. It was acceptable as a hunting rifle, delivering consistent 2 1/2 in groups at 100yds but I wanted more. I slipped card material under the bbl until the groups tightened by half. Then marked the position on the stock and installed the SMLE harmonic stabilizer. It took a couple of hours at the range, where I had to remove the stock 4 times to shorten the spring. What was OK for the SMLE barrel, was to much for the Ruger.

The people that designed and built those old girls, went to great lengths to make them accurate and stay that way.

You also need to make sure the spacer at the King Screw (forward receiver) is still in place. The ways on sporters are often pounded to hell because some nimrod had taken it apart and lost it. Usually the fellow that tried his/her hand at cutting it down lost this valuable piece.

Same thing happens when people pull their milurps apart to clean out the cosmoline. It just seems to be superfluous or the gremlins grab it.

Many of those old girls had copper shim plates screwed to the way shoulders as well.

One fore end stock I picked up from Numrich had the holes from the screws but no shims. For me, that was OK. I am a wood butcher and really shouldn't even attempt stock repair. Metal on the other hand is a different story. I had access to some copper shim material and it was just a matter of using some plastigage to find the thickness needed, cut it to size, drill and countersink it, then screw it into place. I was surprised that both shims were different in thickness. I guess it makes sense though.
 
What is NEDED, quite desepratly, is a source of NEW WOOD for the SMLE.

Wood is out there, but just try to buy it. When a Canadian dealer picks up 11 continerloads of SMLE stuff, the first thing he does is sell 10 of them to the Americans. With less interest in British rifles down there, the result is very cheap wood in the States (which we have a lot of trouble importng) and a small amount of very damned expensive wood here: 2, 3 times the price or more.

We NEED a source of NEW wood, and, for most rifles, it HAS to be Walnut.

Bruce: SSA is Standard Small Arms, NRF is National Rifle Factory. They were the same plant, before and after nationlisation. Between them, they made less than 5% of SMLEs built during WWI.... and none at all in WW2. They are NOT common.
 
When I consider restoring a rifle, I think about the cost of the parts to get back to original. If its just wood and a few rings it doesn't make it a big deal. When the barrel and or lugs chopped off, or there is holes drilled into the receiver, I don't see a lot of value in the rifle. Often the rifle is worth more money in parts, or leave it as a $100 shooter for some young buck to proudly take out as his first hunting rifle. Unless you have a reduced rate on replacement parts, the cost of restoration can exceed the net value of an original configuration rifle.

Having that said, I do have a few chopped up rifles laying around, but at this point I see no urgency to fix them.
 
X2 to Smellie's point. A number 4 may be worth restoring from a sporter as there is still wood to be found in decent shape for that rifle. The No1MkIII is a different story, nice replacement wood for the No 1 is simply not attainable and as the market that requests these stocks is small I don't see anything changing in the near future...or ever. If you own a No1MkIII in full military configuration, treat it to a linseed oil bath and when it dries, give 'er a big hug and thank her for her service in defence of our common wealth. Then with the utmost respect carefully put her back into lock up, for she has done her service and her time to rest has come.

;)
 
smellie said:
What is NEDED, quite desepratly, is a source of NEW WOOD for the SMLE.

Wood is out there, but just try to buy it. When a Canadian dealer picks up 11 continerloads of SMLE stuff, the first thing he does is sell 10 of them to the Americans. With less interest in British rifles down there, the result is very cheap wood in the States (which we have a lot of trouble importng) and a small amount of very damned expensive wood here: 2, 3 times the price or more.

We NEED a source of NEW wood, and, for most rifles, it HAS to be Walnut.



Bruce: SSA is Standard Small Arms, NRF is National Rifle Factory. They were the same plant, before and after nationlisation. Between them, they made less than 5% of SMLEs built during WWI.... and none at all in WW2. They are NOT common.
Click to expand...

Yup, one of those things that is really irritating. ;) One would think with the thousands of bubbaed Enfields in this country, it would be the primary market. Same goes for magazines.

Grizz
 
Here is what is stamped on the rifle, is anyone can interpret what it is! I can figure out where the cat hair came from--can't keep her off my work area!
 
Being an SSA/NRF makes that one a very desirable rifle, the only SMLE I have here is a Despoeterized NRF. There is a fellow selling SMLE parts on evil bay who has in numbered Enfield manufactured nose caps and other Enfield built unnumbered parts you need. It's an expensive way to go on the steel bits but its worth it in the end.

For mine I bought two really rough wood sets and spent some time restoring them. I've had to cut the draws right out of the one and replace them entirely. The info is out there on how to do all the repairs and it is a pretty rewarding thing to do, not only are you saving the rifle but also an irreplaceable and getting more and more rare wood set too. Only thing I haven't been able to repair nicely was the hand guard ears, not sure what the armorers would do there, probably toss them. Ha ha.

I can post pictures of some of the repairs I've done so far. I'm mid way through my second attempt at the draws though, mind your grain direction or the Damned crack will be back instantly!

^thats an SSA all day long!
 
Thanks or the info.
I have a fair amount of odds and ends for various Lee Enfield rifles, so will have to sort things out, to see what I can find for this one.
Also have some unique trading material, like a full wood stock and new magazine for a Hakim rifle.
Or, a new wood stock, never been finished or in a rifle, for an Israeli Mauser. A bit of water stain on it, but otherwise just looks like it came out of the factory, and never put on a rifle.
It is all interesting.
 
.
Your SMLE is an SSA rifle, and as noted, not a very common one due to very limited production. There are still No. 1 rifle parts out there, but are not as common as the No.4 rifle parts so you have to look around a bit. Keep haunting the Gun Shows and Internet, and you will find them, but it could take some time. The problem with our modern society is that people not only want something, but they want it yesterday, and they do not want to be bothered locating some of this stuff.

A SSA rifle, provided it has a reasonable bore and is in decent shape, would definitely be a candidate for restoration.
'
 
I bought a SMLE much like H4831's, only it's a Lithgow. I've been slowly getting the pieces to restore it, and yes, it's already cost me more than I can expect to sell it for. I expected that, and the entire project was meant as a learning process/test bed, and not as a money making exercise. I'll do up a post when I've got it all done. Btw, I got my forend from Numrich: unissued walnut that looks too good for the rest of the rifle!
Meanwhile though, the barrel (2nd picture) looks bulged to my eye, just aft of the foresight.
 
I've got about 6 or 7 No1 rifles that are ready for restoration including 2 SSA rifles one is a 1916 and the other a 1918. I also have a BSA Comercial set up as a target rifle in that was in full military configuration till bubba made it into a sporter that needs some attention.

I wish there was a good source of wood for them, metal parts are out there but wood is always a problem to find.
 
last winter I noticed a fair amount of nos wood for the number 1 and number 4's ( most of it still wrapped in paper ) being sold on ebay by a couple people in the UK .

at the time the sheer volume of parts that where listed got me to thinking about the huge amount of new or like new lee enfield stuff that must still be packed away in peoples homes / garages .
 
burnt_servo said:
last winter I noticed a fair amount of nos wood for the number 1 and number 4's ( most of it still wrapped in paper ) being sold on ebay by a couple people in the UK .
Click to expand...

I saw those to. Didn;t keep track, but it looked like some of them were going at not too bad prices.

I just did a clarity check and I can see 3 full wood #1 sets on eBay right now. It must come an go in waves, because I've seen dozens available there at any one time in the past.
 
"...the cost of the parts..." Yep. And it's not just the stocks. The metal bits are scarce and pricey. Especially if you want the 'right' part. In any case, you'll still have a bubba'd rifle.
 
But if you do the job TO SPEC, you will have the equivalent of an FTR rifle.... and most of them were, at one time or another.

The rest, pretty much guaranteed, needed the services of a qualified Armourer at some time. You can't run a rifle through the two biggest wars in history, throw in a dozen other engagements, and expect it to be NEW. So the rifles were inspected from time to time, worked on, worn bits replaced. As long as everything was TO SPEC, it was fine.

The Lee-Enfield rifle had the longest Service life of ANY modern weapon. How ELSE do you explain an 1897 rifle with a 1943 barrel? It entered Service when the black-powder cam-lock Springfield was the American rifle and it served all through the periods of the US Krag, the Springfield, the Garand, the M-14 and the M-16. Those are ALL obsolete but the Lee-Enfield soldiers on in two of the biggest Armies in the world: India and Pakistan, both of whom know how to treat the rifles, both of which are still making spare parts. My Sparkbrook, which Tinman204 shot so brilliantly just a couple of days ago, served through two major wars. It has enough Inspectors' Marks under the barrel to fill a small phone book and it was worked on for every one of those markings, simply because the rifle had to be disassembled before the Inspector's Mark could go onto it. It was Sold Out Of Service likely about 1920, but it still SHOOTS nicely. When Tinman was here yesterday, he looked at another SMLE here, asked what the red paint was all about. So I told him honestly, "Not to be fired under any circumstance". It has been REPAIRED properly.... and shoots 1/2-MOA if you feed it right and hold it right. I leave the red paint on it because that is a part of that rifle's history.

The LEE rifle is the simplest and the toughest Service bolt rifle ever built. It has its tricks and its definite preferences. Learn to live with those and treat it right and it WILL perform.

But it's all about WORKING TO SPEC. If the work is done TO SPEC at every stage from Factory to your basement shop, the result will WORK VERY WELL.

Hope this helps.
 
See, that's why the No1Mk3* is my favorite milsurp rifle. But I simply couldn't say it nearly as nicely and eloquently as Smellie just did!

Lou
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom