READ ME! Shooting Critique

Riflechair

Riflechair

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Gentlemen

Sorry I have been absent for so long. I suppose I am weary of threads similar in nature to one another. Don't get your hackles up, by that I mean "What have I got here?" type questions / threads, etc...

We often discuss vintage military service weapons here but we never discuss how we shoot them. I propose we refer to this thread to discuss this science. In addition I recommend we restrict this discussion to two shooting styles while in the standing position (argueably the hardest shooting position).

1. Surgical or Precision type shooting
2. Area Shooting (ie: snap shooting and rapid fire)

One of the reasons I try to differentiate is because I often see shooters using snap shooting techniques to hit a very difficult target at sometimes extreme ranges. More often than not they are not open to a different shooting style recommendation.

I'll start off.
This is me shooting at an 8" diameter rock up a hill approximately 100 metres away with a jungle carbine. Yes I'm in the bush getting eaten by mosquitoes but shooting in a safe direction never-the-less. I am not snap shooting - I qualify this as a precision shooting style.

I am open to your constructive criticisms and hope that some of you will share your shooting styles with the rest of us as well.

My Best regards
Richard

position.jpg
 
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The Milshoot match in Smiths Falls, ON has four relays. As I recall, they are timed prone, timed standing, standing snap and kneeling rapid. The total shots on paper is something like 32 or 40. It was one magazine full of something at one time - and now the rule has stuck. There is a pause for a reload during the speedshoots. The other rule is that semi-auto shooters have to break their position after each shot just like the bolt guys.

The match is not about winning, it is about shooting. The fact that 50% of the competitors are truly unskilled marksman makes this a fun course of fire. Your average shooter bellies up to a bench, or maybe shot prone in cadets. After my brother and I walloped the scoresheet badly one match, we were invited to teach our technique before the next match. As I said, most guys do not learn how to improve their position unless they are shown what or how to do it.

For the record, for a while I topped the score sheet but through distractions and up-and-coming competitors, I don't win as much any more.
 
Well I noticed your sling position is a bit more "complex" than mine. May be more steady too.

Here is a photo from our CGN Milsurp shoot at the EOHC last spring with a "well known" Gun Nut showing the sling style I use.

SecondLine3.jpg


I find it is quick to bring the rifle up, push your left elbow out and tighten up the hold.

Of course the winner last year may say "ix-nay on the sling secrets-ay" but I think that cat was let out of the bag last year....:D
 
Slinging up sure helps, Fulton Armory has some good info on the use of the 1907 sling in the differnt positions. Having a big beer belly helps alot too.....:)
eohcmatch.jpg
 
Hitzy said:
Slinging up sure helps, Fulton Armory has some good info on the use of the 1907 sling in the differnt positions. Having a big beer belly helps alot too .....:)
Click to expand...

Yea, I noticed that ..... :D :D

Hitzy, great demonstration of the proper hold and use of the 1907 sling free-standing. I've always had trouble getting the middle loop locked tightly onto my elbow. I do use the extended middle belly rest for stabilization as well .... ;)

Good idea for a thread Riflechair..... :)

Keep the terrific pics coming folks.....

Regards,
Badger
 
BadgerDog said:
Yea, I noticed that ..... :D :D

Hitzy, great demonstration of the proper hold and use of the 1907 sling free-standing. I've always had trouble getting the middle loop locked tightly onto my elbow. I do use the extended middle belly rest for stabilization as well .... ;)

Good idea for a thread Riflechair..... :)

Keep the terrific pics coming folks.....

Regards,
Badger
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Nah, that was the snap stage.....I was having trouble finding the sights as I was slung up pretty tight in the previous standing stage. It's about 1/2 right......mostly free hand there with little support from the sling.
 
I find that for snap shooting, the best way to work it is to have the toe of the butt of the rifle on your shoulder. Look at the target, pivot to face target, bring rifle up into field of view (maintain focus on target) once rifle is in field of view and entering sight window, shift focus to front sight, and place front sight on target. Depress trigger, absorb recoil, return to standing alert, continue scanning for targets.

The sling does not enter into the engagement since I don't have time to use it. I'm on target for about three seconds.

NS
 
Standing Snap

NavyShooter said:
I find that for snap shooting, the best way to work it is to have the toe of the butt of the rifle on your shoulder. Look at the target, pivot to face target, bring rifle up into field of view (maintain focus on target) once rifle is in field of view and entering sight window, shift focus to front sight, and place front sight on target. Depress trigger, absorb recoil, return to standing alert, continue scanning for targets.

The sling does not enter into the engagement since I don't have time to use it. I'm on target for about three seconds.

NS
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Hmm. I thought the idea or Snap was to have the rifle at the Port position not at the Alert position. In other words, 45 degrees skywards vs 45 degrees dirtwards. Maybe local range conditions and considerations apply.

And when is the next Milshoot at EOHC? I've changed jobs and don't see the Smiths Falls fellas as often.
 
~Semi-monthly military rifle shoots: (OK I only get to 1 or 2 a year).

Hasty sling to steady from standing, kneeling, sitting. Prone generally just sucked up without the sling.

15-300m, watch & shoot.... watch & shoot...

I shot my M-14 once & felt like I was cheating the whole time (not that my score reflected the feeling).
Generally No4s, but I've been intending to shoot a .30-30 ala WW2 Ranger style for several years.

~Also formal rifle metallic sillouette:
Relays & spotters, 200-500M off-hand no support.

They objected to me having my hand up to the King screw sling swivel (hand stop), & The mag was deemed to be a "hand rest" which was also illegal. Generally body turned support hand as close to the action as possible. Trigger arm out high.

Only ever shot this with a No4T though. Again, unfortunately it's been several years :-(

Edited to add hold info.
 
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maple_leaf_eh said:
And when is the next Milshoot at EOHC? I've changed jobs and don't see the Smiths Falls fellas as often.
Click to expand...

EOHC - TBD, but in either mid-April or mid-May
Smiths Falls - planned for 4 June, but not yet official
 
Richard if you want my critique on your shooting stance I see 2 things that I do differnetly. First the sling is to short and this puts your hand on the mag, your arm is properly tucked in but you need a bigger beer belly to pull of the stance properly. :) I have one (B1A2 standard issue beer belly)

My opinion is that your hand should be directly in front of the mag and not on the mag. I have the same argument with people holding onto the mags on the C7, its a mag not a handgrip.

I also would suggest leaning into the shot a little more, this helps the beer belly challanged with forearm placement.

Good topic :)
 
That's my problem - I have no beer belly and I can't lean forward far anough to compensate. Thus, I am disadvantaged I guess. Perhaps I should switch from a web sling to a proper M1907 leather shooting sling - lol.
 
Here is why I'm doing that
1. I am a firm believer in using skeletal structure for support over and beyond muscle. In order to do that I have my left elbow tucked in resting on my rib cage and the forearm as straight up and down as comfortable as possible. I also (as noted) am leaning back slightly at the hip in order to make this shooting style possible.
2. I correct for horizontal by moving my feet as required
3. I correct for vertical by breathing in and out.

My method may be different - its a target shooting stance in this pic.
My snap shooting stance is much different.

So far I am seeing snap shooting stances in all of the other pictures.

Richard
 
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