+Real+ 8mm Mauser Loads 8x57JS
- Thread starter Boomer686
- Start date
- Location
- Western Manitoba
I am no help with actual loading data, just found this on Internet for what it is worth - "SAAMI says 35K PSI for 8x57, CIP says 56K PSI." So, you are looking for CIP (European) load data, I believe. Looking in the Nosler 9 manual, hard to decide what standard they used - they do differentiate between 8x57J and 8x57JS - state their data is for the 8x57JS - they are showing 3 loads above 2,600 fps for each of their 180 grain and 200 grain .323" bullets, and the absolute fastest of those is for the 200 grain at 2698 fps (IMR 4350 powder). Both bullets apparently tested using 24" Lilja barrel, Federal cases, WLR primers, and all bullets were loaded to a OACL of 3.030" (2 x 180 grain and 3 x 200 grain) Their "most accurate powder" were both off the maximum velocity - IMR 4064 for the 180's and Varget for the 200's.
Some, but not all reloading manuals, keep pressures on the low and safe side. Most will mention what pressure range they used as max.
I'm a fan of the 8x57 and have a Husqvarna FN98 that I load for. First, you'll find that the lower pressure loads will be accurate, but depending on the game you are harvesting and the distance, you will need a bit more velocity. Rather than guessing, I'd suggest using a chronograph.
Depending on the brand of brass you have, loads may have to be toned down to have any case life at all. My latest cases are R - P and they seem to tolerate normal (30-06) pressures fairly well.
Bullet selection should be your first quest. Mine was more of a project, so I choose a Speer 150 HCSP as my deer bullet, a 175 Sierra as an al around, and was leaning towards a 200 gr as my heavy dangerous game bullet.
Hodgdon has some decent data, with max pressures in the 50,000 CUP range. There are lots of suitable powders, and my choice was CFE 223 for the 150's and my load was 57 gr for a bit over 2900 fps.
When I went to heavier 175 gr bullets I used Varget, a pretty stable powder that likes to run with a almost full case of powder in the 308, and seems to be the same in the 8x57.
My rifle has a nice throat, not long, not shot out, and therefore I was able to seat my bullets completely in the neck and still achieve the accuracy and stay at normal pressures. Not all 8x57 throats are the same, some require a bit longer OAL and more powder to achieve optimum velocity.
https://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/8x57JS+Mauser.html
Nitro
I'm a fan of the 8x57 and have a Husqvarna FN98 that I load for. First, you'll find that the lower pressure loads will be accurate, but depending on the game you are harvesting and the distance, you will need a bit more velocity. Rather than guessing, I'd suggest using a chronograph.
Depending on the brand of brass you have, loads may have to be toned down to have any case life at all. My latest cases are R - P and they seem to tolerate normal (30-06) pressures fairly well.
Bullet selection should be your first quest. Mine was more of a project, so I choose a Speer 150 HCSP as my deer bullet, a 175 Sierra as an al around, and was leaning towards a 200 gr as my heavy dangerous game bullet.
Hodgdon has some decent data, with max pressures in the 50,000 CUP range. There are lots of suitable powders, and my choice was CFE 223 for the 150's and my load was 57 gr for a bit over 2900 fps.
When I went to heavier 175 gr bullets I used Varget, a pretty stable powder that likes to run with a almost full case of powder in the 308, and seems to be the same in the 8x57.
My rifle has a nice throat, not long, not shot out, and therefore I was able to seat my bullets completely in the neck and still achieve the accuracy and stay at normal pressures. Not all 8x57 throats are the same, some require a bit longer OAL and more powder to achieve optimum velocity.
https://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/8x57JS+Mauser.html
Nitro
- Location
- Western Manitoba
There was an article by John Barsness in Rifle magazine a few years ago - he pointed out that Europeans are apparently expected to know which rifle they are buying cartridges for - North Americans tend to be "protected" by SAAMI. Nevertheless, I did discover that PPU (from Serbia) does load two different - gives them different names that might go over some North Americans - the 8mm Mauser and the 8x57IS - on their website will find that the first one, with identical PPU bullets, is 250 fps slower than the second one. Yet both "fit" into an 8x57 chamber - SAAMI versus CIP standards, perhaps?
PPU bullet B-022 - 198 gr. FMJ-BT - 740 m/s from 8x57IS; 665 m/s from 8mm Mauser - so 75 m/s (246 fps) difference
PPU bullet B-349 - 175 gr. PSP-BT - 750 m/s from 8x57IS; 710 m/s from 8mm Mauser - so 40 m/s (130 fps) difference
PPU bullet B-022 - 198 gr. FMJ-BT - 740 m/s from 8x57IS; 665 m/s from 8mm Mauser - so 75 m/s (246 fps) difference
PPU bullet B-349 - 175 gr. PSP-BT - 750 m/s from 8x57IS; 710 m/s from 8mm Mauser - so 40 m/s (130 fps) difference
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Yes I found some hot S&B and Privi ammo: they seem the only ones that offer two different loadings but are very difficult to find. The NA Saami loads took into consideration the fact that there were essentially two original 8mm mausers : .318 (being the older and eventually phased out) and .323 so they dumbed down the data in case one was to mistakenly load .323 into a .318 bore. The lower pressures would enable it to safely fire.
I'm not on any specific quest per se other than to load to full potential and maybe find a real go to load that takes advantage of its true capabilities. Current loads are adequate to very quickly take large game out to 350m or so put from what I have read original loads were faster and just as accurate: more importantly allowed effective shots out to 600M.
Undoubtedly I'll be trying spitzer style bullets in 170gn and up weights. If I can find any I may try some of the new hornady SST's as well.
- Location
- Western Manitoba
Wikipedia seems to have decent write up - original was Patrone 88 (in 1888) - .318 groove with 227 grain round nose bullets. 1903/04/05 the German military changed out to S Patrone - 154 grain bullets, .323" diameter. Somewhere along the line was referred to as 7.92x57 - often see that 7.9 or 7.92 stamped on WWII Mausers. Then SAAMI did their thing and named it the 8 mm Mauser, with their pressure standards. CIP did similar, used their higher pressure standards, and called their version the 8x57JS (or 8x57IS). Elsewhere had read many gunsmiths continued well into 1920's etc. using .318" groove bores - hence SAAMI's "concern"...
I have a Husqvarna 1600 series rifle in 8x57JS. I load mostly 195-200 grain bullets in it
2 or 3 loads are outstanding. One is with VV N150, one with VV N550, and one with
100V All of them drive 195, 196, 198 or 200 grain bullets to right around 2650 fps.
My favorite load is the Norma 196 Alaska and 5x grains of 100V.....shoots 3 into a ragged
hole at 100. Gotta shoot a moose with this load. I bet it will be superb.
I will be experimenting with these bullets and Norma 203B. I believe it will also work well.
Dave.
2 or 3 loads are outstanding. One is with VV N150, one with VV N550, and one with
100V All of them drive 195, 196, 198 or 200 grain bullets to right around 2650 fps.
My favorite load is the Norma 196 Alaska and 5x grains of 100V.....shoots 3 into a ragged
hole at 100. Gotta shoot a moose with this load. I bet it will be superb.
I will be experimenting with these bullets and Norma 203B. I believe it will also work well.
Dave.
What confuses things is when the Germans transitioned out of their excellent Gew88 (Commission) rifles, which had a .318 diameter J bore, to the Gew98 which had .323 S bore.
There was a lot of the .318 bore ammunition and the rifles to shoot them out of after WWI and into the mid sixties, when supplies finally dried up.
In Europe, they still make the 8x57 JR or J or I round for these rifles and yes, the shooter is expected to know the bore diameter of his/her rifle.
To make things worse, many nations converted their old Gew88 rifles to the S bore, by replacing the barrels when they wore out or ammo was used up.
Lots of Turkish conversions in the collections of some folks.
I have a few Gew88 rifles, with original .318 bores and they both require special chargers to hold the ammo inline in the mag and fall out the bottom when the mag is depleted. I also have a couple that don't require the chargers, because they have been modified internally with a large flat spring with a guide for feeding and holding the cartridges in place for the bolt to push out.
The latter rifles have .323 bore diameters. Surprisingly, one is still fitted with a barrel shroud. They all are 1900 or earlier dates.
To make matters worse, commercial sporting rifle manufacturers kept making rifles with bores measuring .318. I had a lovely Cogswell and Harrison Mauser chambered for the 7.92x57 "I" bore, which was stamped on the chamber area of the rifle, along with a bunch of pressure and acceptance marks.
Cartridges used to be available for these rifles in well stocked gun stores. I haven't seen any for years.
If you have a post 1900 date 98 Mauser, chambered in 8x57 the chances of it having a .318 bore diameter is minimal. That doesn't mean you shouldn't slug your bore to make sure what it is.
Because the .318 bore rifles were relatively common, when North American cartridge companies first started commercially loading and distributing for the 8mm Mauser and because of fear of litigation, the cartridges were purposely loaded down to around 38,000psi, so they could be safely fired in the smaller bores, even though they were using .323 diameter bullets.
The 8x57, in both bores was once and still in many cases is, the workhorse cartridge of both Europe and Africa as well as many other parts of the world.
It was and still is, IMHO, an extremely effective cartridge, especially when loaded to its full potential.
I loaded the 8x57 sporter I had with:
55 grains of VVN160, over CCI 250 primers, under 200 grain Norma Oryx bullets, for a velocity of 2500 fps. PSI was around 50k according to the Norma load tables.
I only had the chance to shoot one Moose, a couple of Black Bears and a few Deer with it, for the season I used it.
All shots were 200 yards or less. Only one required a second shot and that was my fault, because I pulled the trigger before I had a decent hold on the rifle and a poor sight picture. I never did recover any of the bullets, which was strange, because Oryx bullets are relatively soft and expand very well.
There was a lot of the .318 bore ammunition and the rifles to shoot them out of after WWI and into the mid sixties, when supplies finally dried up.
In Europe, they still make the 8x57 JR or J or I round for these rifles and yes, the shooter is expected to know the bore diameter of his/her rifle.
To make things worse, many nations converted their old Gew88 rifles to the S bore, by replacing the barrels when they wore out or ammo was used up.
Lots of Turkish conversions in the collections of some folks.
I have a few Gew88 rifles, with original .318 bores and they both require special chargers to hold the ammo inline in the mag and fall out the bottom when the mag is depleted. I also have a couple that don't require the chargers, because they have been modified internally with a large flat spring with a guide for feeding and holding the cartridges in place for the bolt to push out.
The latter rifles have .323 bore diameters. Surprisingly, one is still fitted with a barrel shroud. They all are 1900 or earlier dates.
To make matters worse, commercial sporting rifle manufacturers kept making rifles with bores measuring .318. I had a lovely Cogswell and Harrison Mauser chambered for the 7.92x57 "I" bore, which was stamped on the chamber area of the rifle, along with a bunch of pressure and acceptance marks.
Cartridges used to be available for these rifles in well stocked gun stores. I haven't seen any for years.
If you have a post 1900 date 98 Mauser, chambered in 8x57 the chances of it having a .318 bore diameter is minimal. That doesn't mean you shouldn't slug your bore to make sure what it is.
Because the .318 bore rifles were relatively common, when North American cartridge companies first started commercially loading and distributing for the 8mm Mauser and because of fear of litigation, the cartridges were purposely loaded down to around 38,000psi, so they could be safely fired in the smaller bores, even though they were using .323 diameter bullets.
The 8x57, in both bores was once and still in many cases is, the workhorse cartridge of both Europe and Africa as well as many other parts of the world.
It was and still is, IMHO, an extremely effective cartridge, especially when loaded to its full potential.
I loaded the 8x57 sporter I had with:
55 grains of VVN160, over CCI 250 primers, under 200 grain Norma Oryx bullets, for a velocity of 2500 fps. PSI was around 50k according to the Norma load tables.
I only had the chance to shoot one Moose, a couple of Black Bears and a few Deer with it, for the season I used it.
All shots were 200 yards or less. Only one required a second shot and that was my fault, because I pulled the trigger before I had a decent hold on the rifle and a poor sight picture. I never did recover any of the bullets, which was strange, because Oryx bullets are relatively soft and expand very well.
Yes mine is .323 . I am waiting for my Labradar to show up (my chrony had an altercation with a 10mm bullet last year and lost) and some warmer weather then load development will begin. I have lots of 150gr to play with and then will work up loads with the 170's and 200grainers. Started the hunt for the Hornady SST's which, despite mixed reviews from some, I have always had great success with in multiple calibres.
The 8X57 mimicks 30-06 MV's for most bullet weights when loaded to the same level. The same powders are suitable for both and in fact many load mins and maxes overlap. Much the same can be said for the 8X57 and the 308, but the 8X57 will beat the 308's MV's for every bullet weight.
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dgradinaru
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- British Columbia
Here are some warm loads done up by realguns.com
dgradinaru
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- British Columbia
dgradinaru
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- British Columbia
Actual load of 52.5grs of imr 4320 from 10 feet away. 2791 fps from a 23.6 inch barrel.
That's a few more stout loads for sure! Found some in an older Lyman manual as well that also use IMR4064 supposedly pushing 170gr just over 2900fps.
Can't wait to try some of these. Hopefully find an accurate stout load with all the new info. I'll be sure to post updates but it will be awhile as we are still in a deep freeze here.
Can't wait to try some of these. Hopefully find an accurate stout load with all the new info. I'll be sure to post updates but it will be awhile as we are still in a deep freeze here.
- Location
- Saskatchewan
The designation "8mm Mauser" should not be used interchangeably with the proper designation 8x57IS / 8x57JS - they mean different things. But people mix them up all the time.
8mm Mauser is the SAAMI ( USA) name for the emasculated and weak USA load standard.
8x57JS / 8x57IS is the CIP ( Europe) designation for the modern design and full pressure .323" diameter bullet load.
"J" vs "I" are simply alternative versions of the original German script, as typed on a modern keyboard.
I have used the following loads in my Brno 21H: usual cautions apply.
53 gr. WW748 with Win LR std primer in Rem. case, and 175 Sierra for 2730 FPS ( Hodgdon max load)
and
50 gr. IMR4350 with Win LR std primer in Rem. case, and 200 Gr. NosPtn for 2430 FPS
8mm Mauser is the SAAMI ( USA) name for the emasculated and weak USA load standard.
8x57JS / 8x57IS is the CIP ( Europe) designation for the modern design and full pressure .323" diameter bullet load.
"J" vs "I" are simply alternative versions of the original German script, as typed on a modern keyboard.
I have used the following loads in my Brno 21H: usual cautions apply.
53 gr. WW748 with Win LR std primer in Rem. case, and 175 Sierra for 2730 FPS ( Hodgdon max load)
and
50 gr. IMR4350 with Win LR std primer in Rem. case, and 200 Gr. NosPtn for 2430 FPS
