real data needed for 7X57 and now I have it.

jacky

jacky

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I read quite a few threads regrading different loads and powders.

It appeared that with a 140 grain bullet H414 powder is the choice however in my manuals and on the internet there seems to be quite a wide range of results. If anything it means to work up the load carefully of course, but here is what I have found.

Now my gun is a Savage 24" barrel.

47 grains H414 - 2700fps

49 grains H414 - 2700fps - 2900 fps

45 grains H414 - 2700fps

Ken Water's and the Sierra loading books do not have a load using H414
and the Speer manual states that 47 grains with a 145 grain bullet is a compressed load.

Off the Hodgden site it shows 47 grains H414 at 2700 fps - 46000 CUP

Is 46000 CUP the max or can I go higher ?

So my question is has anyone acually Chrony'd their load or know what kind of pressures these loads are producing ? I want some first hand experience that way as I am working up my own load I will have a better idea what to expect. I fully plan on chronying my loads and working them up carefully as I am a nitpick for safety (and OCD for accuracy. ;))

Jacky
 
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These concerns seem to pop up on a regular basis. Someone needs to step up to the plate and publish real data for specific rifles. It would be great to see a powder manufacturer take the time to publish specific real world data for a number of the common rifles these old cartridges are chambered in...

Here is what I have been advised to use in a strong "modern" 7x57 rifle:
140gr bullet - 49gr x W760 over a LRM primer
 
"...can I go higher?..." Follow your manual religiously. 47 grains is the max load.
A 145 grain bullet will be a wee bit longer than a 140, but Hodgdon doesn't show 150 grain H414 loads as being compressed. Speer must have been confused or it's a typo. Compressed loads are nothing to worry about though.
A chronograph doesn't give you pressures.
 
You will frequently find 2 sets of data for the 7x57, one featuring milder loads for the older and weaker M95 Mausers and the like, and the other for modern rifles like the M700 Rem, M70 Win, M77 Ruger etc.

H414 and it's near twin,W760, are excellent in the 7x57. I've run 139/140 gr bullets with 48gr of H414 in Rem cases in both a sporterized M 98 Mauser and a M700 Rem with no problems and excellent accuracy.
 
"...can I go higher?..." Follow your manual religiously. 47 grains is the max load
Click to expand...

Well yes but with this particular cartridge as stated above there are usually two types of loads, one for older rifles and another for Modern rifles. This is also the reason I am asking for actual data.

A chronograph doesn't give you pressures
Click to expand...
of course not

It looks like 49 grains is Max with the H414 but I want to know what the pressure is and if anyone has chrony'd it.

Someone above said to use LRM primers. This didn't even cross my mind, I just thought the LR primer would be good enough ?
 
real data needed for 7X57

Hi Jacky,

I have numerous 7x57's and enjoy loading for all of them. I used to own a very nice Savage as well. :D
You will find it very interesting to load for this calibre & the conflicting max loads in most manuals do not help.
The current Nosler manual lists 7x57 loads for modern rifles and shows max as 49.0 H414, case 97% full, WLR primer and velocity as 2790 fps from a 22" barrel. The latest Hodgdon manual lists 2 sets of loads - one for older actions with lower pressures and one for modern rifles. It is quite inexpensive to purchase and you can do it online from Hodgdon.
I also use QuickLoad as it helps a lot for working up loads with various powders for my rifles and is surprisingly accurate with the published velocities. I have not personally used H414 but I used to burn a lot of W760, and I used mag primers for it as it was also a ball-type powder. These days I mainly use H-4350 and Alliant Reloder-17 for this cartridge.
When I input 49.0 H414 into QL, it lists the pressure as 57,101 psi piezo cip with a 140 grain nosler accubond bullet.
I do use my chrony to help determine when I should stop increasing powder charge. However, you should never exceed the max listed velocities from manuals that list their loads for modern firearms.
Here are a few links that may be of interest:
http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth...showflat/Number/2245125/page/1/gonew/1#UNREAD
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=104172
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=241901

hf
 
Ken Waters, who I have read extensively and do not think was much of a risk-taker with his handloads, shows a load for a 140gr bullet and 48gr H414 in Rem brass generating 2733fps with normal pressure signs. He shows 49gr H414 producing 2796fps with the same bullet and brass approaching max pressure indications.

The Nosler Manual shows 49gr H414 as a max load producing 2790fps in Win brass @ 93% capacity.
Metallic Ctg Reloading shows a max load of 48 gr H414 producing 2805fps in Win brass with a pressure of 48800C.

Like I mentioned in my first post, 48gr H414 in Rem brass(I use magnum primers for ball powder) is good for me with a 139/140gr bullet in MY rifles. For YOUR rifle/bullet/brass/primer combination, I recommend that you begin at the starting load working up in .5gr increments watching for pressure indicators and accuracy. What works fine in one rifle for pressure and accuracy,may not be OK for another rifle. Chrony data for the same load may also vary between different rifles. The 7x57 is a wonderful deer ctg with 140gr bullets loaded within safe parameters. I would'nt push the envelope to far. If you want more poke with the same bullet, consider a .280 Rem or some variety of 7mm Magnum.
 
I have never loaded with a Ball powder, just cyclindrical, do ball powders need a mag primer or work better with a mag primer ?

I have a ton IMR 4350 as it and RL22 work great in my 7mm mag so I will also try the 4350.

The current Nosler manual lists 7x57 loads for modern rifles and shows max as 49.0 H414, case 97% full, WLR primer and velocity as 2790 fps from a 22" barrel.
Click to expand...

This is good thanks as I am going to use accubonds. I will start at 47 grains as this is the lowest I have seen and work up loads not past 49 grains. I haven't seen anyload over 49 grains. I am however going to chrony the loads as this seems to be where some of the published data is wonky.
 
The general consensus is to use a magnum primer for more reliable ignition with ball powder reloads,especially for cold weather hunting. WLR primers are reputed to be fairly hot, so some folks use them with ball powders as well.

You would do well to try IMR 4350 in your 7x57. I've reloaded for three 7x57s and my preferences for all of them are in no particular order;W760, IMR4350, H414, and IMR 4320.
 
In a modern rifle I get one hole groups [BRNO 21]with 140gr/49gr Win 760/fed brass and Fed mag primer.Also 160gr/50gr RE22 same primer and brass.I would use mag primers as recommended in most books with H-414 or Win 760.Same powder by the way.Don't get hung up on velocity ,rather accuracy.............JMO.........Harold
 
Ball power is ahrder to ignite. But the 7x57 case is not too big, so a standard primer would work just fine. The Winchester primer is hooter, as it is amde for igntng Winchester ball powder, so the Winchester standard primer makes a good all-purpose primer.

Each rifle is dffererent, so published powder charges are only a guidleline. Strart low and work up, util you see pressure or reach their velocity with the same powder.

I did this today for several rifles and found a huge difference in groups as the powder charges increased.
 
7x57

I own a ZG47 7x57 and a 21 H Brno 7x57. My 3 sons all shoot 7x57 21 H Brno Rifles. Some of the guns are the carbines and some are rifles. We shoot one load in all the rifles. We have shot Moose, Deer, Bear and Caribou with this load. It groups well in all of the guns.It shoots flat and is a real killer. There has never been any signs of pressure or other problems .

AS ALWAYS WORK UP TO THE LOAD.

Winchester Cases
CCI LR Primer
44 grns IMR 4320 powder
Hornaday 139 BTSP Interlock
 
With this kind of interest I think once I am done and have my own data I will post everything I found. I did not know that about ball powder but luckly I have lots of Mag primers for H414 and enough LR primers for 4350.

I think we can all agree that the 7X57 is pure awesome.
 
I use mag primers in everything as recommended by many gun writers hunting in sub-zero weather........Harold
 
mbogo3 said:
I use mag primers in everything as recommended by many gun writers hunting in sub-zero weather........Harold
Click to expand...

I will remember this as come November or even sometimes October we can get cold spells. Then again at the same time it can warm up just as fast.

Would the mag primer work just as well/safe in warm weather ??
 
try 46 gr 414 you,ll be very happy and the deer won,t like you out to 300yds my 98 shoots under 1/2 in. all day win brass std primers in summer mag pri in winter 24 in. barrel 150 gr bullet. its just a deadly happy cartridge. if u want more get a bigger cartridge! same rifle 3rd barrel 30 years.
 
The Nosler manuals usually give loads for their bullets only. That may have changed over the years but it used to be the norm. I don't shoot Nosler bullets but they used to use a different jacket compound than other manufacturers and many of their bullets were solid copper. Their bases, if lead cored were of a harder material, so they would hold together. Good bullet overall. Rumor has it that the reason their manuals list lighter loads is to keep the pressures in line because of this.

The 49gr x W760 x LRM primers is an old stand by. It's been around for years in the Lyman manuals. They tested it in a 95 Mauser, with a 29in bbl and a universal receiver. Their universal receiver gave them a pressure reading of 39,700 cup (copper units of pressure) and a velocity of 2,710fps. That is a very safe load to use in just about any 7x57, as long as it's in good condition.
Many shooters bump that load up by a few grains at a time, until they get pressure signs or accuracy falls off. This should only be done in modern receivers.
Brazil, loaded their 1908 and later 98style actions with a 140grain bullet at 2900fps. I pulled a couple of bullets from some Brazilian ammunition. The powder was ball, of some sort. I weighed it and it weighed out to 52 grains. In the few I shot and checked velocities on, they clocked an average of 2845fps. Close enough.

The 7-08rem should be a kissing cousin. It has less powder space and lists a 48.0gr x W760 x LR primer. They list 2800fps from a universal receiver at 48,500 psi.

Now, there is another little curve to throw at you, Many 95 Mausers had 1 in 8in twist rates and very long throats, for the 175 grain round nose military bullets. Lyman, used a 1 in 8 3/4in twist in their universal receiver when they tested the 7x57 but listed a 1-10in twist on their Mauser. It may have been re barreled. All of my 91, 95 Mausers have a 1-8in twist. The 98 actions in 7x57 all have 1-10in twists and shorter throats. There is some disagreement about whether or not the faster twist will raise pressures or not. I like to stick to the load that is the most accurate. Over the years I've learned that accuracy and consistency is far more fulfilling than speed.
 
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