Realistic newer shooter accuracy, calibers guns & ammo. Simplified. Your input.

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Ladnerchevy

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Everyone and their mothers, mothers mother has input on this.
From the gun shop guys that scoff at the idea of guns and ammo they have never even shot, to the old "my dads friend shoots 1000 yrds, 1moa with anything"
I has been quite the whirlwind of experience and money! to get an idea of what is realistic and the amount of variables involved in simply shooting cans. I am by no means an expert but maybe I can save someone some time and energy.

I can say a few things with certainty in hopes to save some people getting into this hobby/sport/addiction some time.

1.) Every gun and caliber will shoot and until you put a few thousand rounds through the tube, you probably wont be very good.. Consistently. I have bought many different calibers, brands and ammo and they all do roughly the same thing. If you are expecting to shoot 1" groups at 100 yards consistently, forget it. Most people that claim they shoot like a pro suck at the range.

2.) 30-06 will kill everything in north america to 400 yards and past 400 yards you better be a damn good shot. (400 is a VERY long shot here in BC)
Hours on forums reading reviews and opinions is basically useless. My advice would be to buy a decent gun and a great scope that you can afford. Every gun and caliber will perform different for every person. The more you use and know your gun, the better you will be with it. I went up to 300's and the 30-06 will do the same thing with less damage and recoil, but it won't reach as far. On that note..

3.) Recoil. How much is too much? Only you will know what is comfortable for you. How do you know? Go to the range or find friends and shoot it.
If the first rifle you ever shoot is a 338 Lapua, you may be ruined. I did not have the luxury of being taught how to shoot and picked up some nasty habits which I blame on not learning on a reasonable rifle. 22 would have been great.. Don't buy the rifle you want in the caliber you DON'T WANT because its on sale. Just don't.
Learn to shoot on smaller rifles if possible and work your way up to find your max comfort level.

4.) You get what you pay for. There is a reason the expensive stuff usually comes with long or life time warranties. When you have some experience and are looking for YOUR RIFLE, Buy Once, Cry Once and be done with it. You will thank yourself. Having said that, if you are cheap or always looking for the cheapest and best deals and can't commit, rethink this sport because it is an endless money pit. You WILL NOT get close to what you paid if you sell your guns!

Summing up, instead of getting dragged down and spending endless hours in confusion staring at the wall of hundreds of guns and boxes of ammo, getting no help from the clowns working there, do a bit of research and narrow a few down, fire a few if there are some available to you, and grab one, get out there and Shoot it yourself.

I find there is so much confusion and choice in this sport and like everything else in this life, you are the only one that can know what is best for you.

Welcome everyone's input to simplify this long and tedious process.

Cheers

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I think a new shooter can ramp up accuracy/consistentcy fairly quikly with sound instruction on how to interface with the rifle and the principles of marksmanship. A known good shooter would make the newbie a great shooter in just a few range sessions, not 1000's of rounds.
 
I had an opportunity to shoot with a friend of mine, who's USMC retired. He did a couple of tours in the sandbox. He was the designated marksman for his unit. I also had bad habits which he quickly pointed out. We used his WWII 22LR training rifle bolt action. He said it would be easier for him to spot what I might be doing wrong. Didn't take long for him to pick up what I was doing wrong. We also worked on pistol fundamentals. It was an awesome experience to shoot with him.

I agree with previous posts, practice with a good instructor would speed up the learning curves. I also recommend watching the "Sniper's Hide" instructional video series online.
 
What many novice shooters fail to recognize is the part seemingly "minor" mistakes can play in messing up the groups/scores/etc at the range.

The point made about beginning with a 22 rimfire is a very sound one. Getting the hold correct, the trigger control right, the sight picture right,
are all easier done when one does not have to deal with substantial recoil and elevated noise.

Repeatability is a vital factor in shooting groups. If one is not watching the "cant" of his/her rifle, it really messes with groups, particularly as the
distance increases.

An experienced mentor is always a great idea, and most accomplished shooters do not mind helping someone just starting out.

Anything we can do to attract new shooters is good. :) Regards, Dave.
 
The hardest thing to teach is the mental discipline and focus required to become an outstanding shot..........where you see and hear nothing but the target, whether a bullseye or sheep at 400 mtrs this focus and discipline is crucial. Not all have the personality to master this aspect of the game. This absolute concentration is what allows experienced shooters to shoot 460 Wbys without a flinch, and allows experienced hunters to hit small targets at extended ranges. It is also the reason some of us never feel nor hear our rifle, when shooting at game. It is also why a good shooter can "call his shot".............It is more this state of concentration that takes thousands of rounds to acquire, than is the mechanics of shooting correctly as taught by a proper instructor.
Concentration is all that is required to overcome recoil fear..........it is difficult to explain, but those who effectively shoot heavies know of what I refer to.
 
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c-fbmi said:
The hardest thing to teach is the mental discipline and focus required to become an outstanding shot..........where you see and hear nothing but the target, whether a bullseye or sheep at 400 mtrs this focus and discipline is crucial. Not all have the personality to master this aspect of the game. This absolute concentration is what allows experienced shooters to shoot 460 Wbys without a flinch, and allows experienced hunters to hit small targets at extended ranges. It is also the reason some of us never feel nor hear our rifle, when shooting at game. It is also why a good shooter can "call his shot".............It is more this state of concentration that takes thousands of rounds to acquire, than is the mechanics of shooting correctly as taught by a proper instructor.
Concentration is all that is required to overcome recoil fear..........it is difficult to explain, but those who effectively shoot heavies know of what I refer to.
Click to expand...

Quoted for truth!! I agree wholeheartedly, Douglas.

Dave.
 
Over the years, I've given different advice to new shooters, but now I mostly tell them that if theywat to learn to shoot, get a decent .223, get a trigger job done on it, top itwith a decent scope and buy a case of ammo. Then source as much good advice as possible and shoot as often as possible. 10 rounds a day, 5 days a week, is better than 100 rounds every two weeks.
 
So much good information and so many times your paths have been crossed but it is almost as if we are preaching to the informed.
Quotes from a new shooter . . . I was told to get a 30-06 . . . I was told the 300 Win Mag would bee the only rifle I will ever need!
Previous experience is someplace between nil and nothing.
When a .22 is suggested buddy is looking around to see if I have a second head!
Even at my Club there are air rifles, 22's, 223's and shotguns plus a few donated rifles and some that are more in the interest of the Director than what can be instructed at a modest cost. Then there are some that are "funner" and "more funner".
Advancing a new shooter beyond their idea of manageable is unreasonable. I would agree with a first center fire in the 223 range but since I don't have one my 22-250 varmint has sufficed.
Advancing someone too quickly may just create the acronym "FFL" and that is not good.
 
Firstly, just to point out a few things about shooting. It is much harder to become a good shooter now, than it was seventy years ago. That's because in the great years of shooting (and hunting) during the about twenty years following WW2, organized shooting was extremely well organized in Canada. Almost every little town or burg had organized shooting clubs, including shooting instructors.
When Prince George had from 5 to 10 per cent of the present day population, there were hundreds of shooters who came at least once a week all winter to participate in organized 22 sporting rifle competitions. There were several sub groups of shooters who would compete all winter against each others group, with shoot offs in the spring for the trophies.
The major indoor range was the armoury and it was full of shooters six nights a week. I will guess about 12 to 15 shooters could lay side by side for prone shooting, but that couldn't accommodate all the shooters. So they built a steel, elevated platform over the shooting area, to accommodate a like number of shooters, above the ones on the ground level.
Top shooters from the major clubs, in both full bore and small bore shooting, would advance to the provincial level and the best from the provincial groups went to Ottawa to compete for Canadian championship and the champion could then go to Bisley, England, to compete for the British Empire champion!
Calgary had one of the best shooting clubs in Canada and spawned many champions in both small bore (22) and full bore (303). My oldest brother lived in Calgary and he, a son and a daughter were prominent shooters. The daughter was once on the Canadian small bore team and his son also competed in Ottawa. I was in Calgary for six weeks in the fall of 1949 and I shot with them at their indoor small bore range, in the basement of some commercial building.
I was taken by the quality of the instructors they had, which of course, was the reason for the clubs great success. There was a woman instructor who, along with her husband, was in their small bore range nearly every week day seasonal evening, instructing the shooters. I was amazed one evening to see a veteran shooter with Bisley, England shooting patches on his jacket, come to the lady instructor and ask her to come and watch him shoot, to try and see what he was doing wrong, as he was shooting below his standard!
Yes, pretty hard to become a good shooter without proper instruction. And how good you can become will largely depend on the quality of the instruction you get.
I would also like to point out the importance of concentration, that Douglas brought up. There is also a funny twist to this. Most of the old time game shooters were poor target shooters and their favourite saying was they never missed an animal, but they just couldn't hit a piece of paper and everybody laughed at them. But it was true! Whether or not their family lived well depended to a great degree on the meat they brought home. Thus, when they shot at an animal they had 100% concentration on killing that animal, thus the rifle just game up, the sights lined up and the rifle fired, completely from concentration, without a thought. And the animal died.
 
c-fbmi said:
The hardest thing to teach is the mental discipline and focus required to become an outstanding shot..........where you see and hear nothing but the target, whether a bullseye or sheep at 400 mtrs this focus and discipline is crucial. Not all have the personality to master this aspect of the game. This absolute concentration is what allows experienced shooters to shoot 460 Wbys without a flinch, and allows experienced hunters to hit small targets at extended ranges. It is also the reason some of us never feel nor hear our rifle, when shooting at game. It is also why a good shooter can "call his shot".............It is more this state of concentration that takes thousands of rounds to acquire, than is the mechanics of shooting correctly as taught by a proper instructor.
Concentration is all that is required to overcome recoil fear..........it is difficult to explain, but those who effectively shoot heavies know of what I refer to.
Click to expand...

I couldn't agree more, and it never occurred to me that I am not the only one who doesn't hear or feel the gun going off when shooting at game.
 
H4831;12637331 There is also a funny twist to this. Most of the old time game shooters were poor target shooters and their favourite saying was they never missed an animal said:
This is one of the most accurate statements I have read in a long time.
The harder I try shooting at a target the worse I get. A couple shots at a target and then I have to walk away.
Now, go hunting and its a totally different game. With hair on the target the concentration and instinct kick in big time. The hunt is over.
Click to expand...
 
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