Reasonable expectations for accuracy

Travis_m

Travis_m

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I'm new to pistol shooting and I'm curious what people's opinion is for what is a reasonable expectation for accuracy for a newbie.

A few things to note:

I've got experience with shotguns and rifles and shoot them regularly.

The two pistols I've got are a remington rp9 and sig sauer 1911 22. I know they are not the best pistols on the planet but that's what I've got. I plan on spending 80% of the time on the 22 to develop my skills.

The distance I've been shooting at is 15m. That's the closest range we have that's sheltered. I can go to the outdoor range and get closer if I want. Right now I am shooting about a 6 inch group from 15m.

The club I joined required training sessions and I used a Browning buckmark and Ruger mk3 for those. At every session no matter the pistol I shoot low and right. The sessions were more about safety than marksmanship.

I'm right handed and left eye dominant so I shoot left handed.

I'm using bulk ammo.

So really my question is with the pistols that I have what size of grouping at 15m should I expect at best? I want to be able to gauge my progress in my marksmanship skills.
 
You could shoot the pistols very carefully from sandbags. That would give you a pretty good idea of what to expect from the pistols.
If you are right handed, left eye dominant, shoot right handed. No reason you cannot use your left eye.
 
No experience with RP9 but I had a Sig 1911-22, it’s more for plinking than any target shooting in my mind. However with some practice (ie, trigger control, grip and sight picture) , you can try 3-4’ group with 10 shoots for 15m. Ruger Mark Iv or Browing buck Mark is more accurate and 2-3 ‘ group is achievable. 22LR pistol in general are more accurate than 9mm due to design.
 
What I suspect is happening is you do not have good trigger control. Likely you are squeezing the trigger and applying pressure to the other fingers in your grip as well. The fingers tend to want to work together. This is throwing your shot off I think your You should consider using your centerfire and dryfire it everyday till you can manipulate the trigger without disturbing sight alignment.
 
As a newbe handgun shooting is not easy and 15 yards can be very frustrating as the holes seem to scatter a lot. If you jerk the trigger it can really throw the point of impact the trigger. Remember the basics: hold the firearm firmly but not too tight (it will make you shake), focus on the front sight, squeeze the trigger (consistant even pressure), follow through, focusing on returning the sight to the target. The act of shooting is not complete until you are back on target. There is a bit more too it but those are the main ones and the more recoil the more difficult to shoot accurately. Have fun and welcome to the addiction.
 
tiriaq said:
You could shoot the pistols very carefully from sandbags. That would give you a pretty good idea of what to expect from the pistols.
If you are right handed, left eye dominant, shoot right handed. No reason you cannot use your left eye.
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Yes. Just move the pistol over a bit and use your left eye while you are holding it right handed. That's what I do, it works well for me and many others.
 
IMHO a 6 inch group at 15m is acceptable for most. You are a natural. But if you train with a plan, your groups should improve more quickly.
May I suggest that you go to the outdoor range. Start at 5m. Keep working that distance until you can shoot through a hole. Focus on grip and trigger. Start slow.
Then move out to 7 or 10m and try to get hits to touch. 15m is a long way for many. Go there after you have mastered the shorter distances.
Then 25m and you will be surprised at how good the groupings are.
Then go back to 5m and add double taps to the training. Repeat at 7/10, 15 and 25.
Then join IDPA or IPSC.
[Edit] Forgot the most important part: Get some training from a reputable instructor.
PM me if you want some referrals from the Ottawa Valley.
 
Suther said:
Yes. Just move the pistol over a bit and use your left eye while you are holding it right handed. That's what I do, it works well for me and many others.
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I'll give that a try. I am pretty good with my left hand. I've been shooting rifles left handed so long that holding a gun in my right hand feels unnatural. We will see how it goes.
 
TomExAF said:
IMHO a 6 inch group at 15m is acceptable for most. You are a natural. But if you train with a plan, your groups should improve more quickly.
May I suggest that you go to the outdoor range. Start at 5m. Keep working that distance until you can shoot through a hole. Focus on grip and trigger. Start slow.
Then move out to 7 or 10m and try to get hits to touch. 15m is a long way for many. Go there after you have mastered the shorter distances.
Then 25m and you will be surprised at how good the groupings are.
Then go back to 5m and add double taps to the training. Repeat at 7/10, 15 and 25.
Then join IDPA or IPSC.
[Edit] Forgot the most important part: Get some training from a reputable instructor.
PM me if you want some referrals from the Ottawa Valley.
Click to expand...

That's a great plan. I am going to look around the web to find different drills to do as well. I found that 15m was far but it really shows your error when you mess up.

I have a friend who has done alot of training with pistols and has offered to help me out. I'm going to take him up on it but also plan on finding different instructors to work with.
 
I would keep my expectations low at first.

I used the Browning 9 MM when I was in the Forces. Got a fair bit of practice time and at 20 yards you were still in far more danger of me throwing it at you and hitting you with it then getting shot from that distance.

I always admired the guys that got good with a pistol. I'm shaky at the best of times so I would never want to carry a pistol as my only weapon if my life depended on it.
 
Travis_m said:
... At every session no matter the pistol I shoot low and right. ....
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That's good. Consistency is fundamental to achieving accuracy. For example this indicates that it's you that is shooting low and right, not the pistols, so you can be the solution.
 
Travis_m said:
I'll give that a try. I am pretty good with my left hand. I've been shooting rifles left handed so long that holding a gun in my right hand feels unnatural. We will see how it goes.
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In that case you might be just fine shooting left. I was the opposite, started right handed with rifles, now shoot shotgun left and use the above trick for pistols. Still need to start shooting rifle lefty though. Lol
 
Low and right if you are shooting left handed is usually a flinch. One trick i try after a mag or two if I'm suspecting a flinch is take an empty case, clear your gun. Put empty case on top of your slide near the front preferably. And dry fire... the case should not move.
 
First of all, you are challenging yourself with 15 meter shots as a Newby, a good instructor will start you at 3-5 meters, I know it seems too close, but it gives you the ability to actually SEE what your shots are doing, are you pushing/ pulling the trigger left or right, are you flinching etc. Have a buddy load a snap cap randomly in a mag for you, when you pull the trigger on that dead round watch how much your front sight moves, quite an eye opener :)
However, my best piece of advice,, get a mentor, pay if you have too, but it's usually not hard to find an experienced pistol shooter to mentor you, I have found most really accomplished pistol shooters want to pass their knowledge on to the new guys at no cost. We are pretty fortunate where I am,,small town with an amazing amount of excellent pistol shooters,,not hard to find a mentor here,,hopefully it's the same where you are. Good luck!!
 
If you are getting all your shots on paper at 15 yrds, you are off to a good start.

Get some expert instruction ASAP. Otherwise you will be practicing with poor technique and will get good at shooting poorly.
 
Ganderite said:
If you are getting all your shots on paper at 15 yrds, you are off to a good start.

Get some expert instruction ASAP. Otherwise you will be practicing with poor technique and will get good at shooting poorly.
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^^^ This

I worked with a new shooter last week, and her dad brought a 9mm for her to shoot. (sigh - a .22 is a much better start) Anyhow, she listened well, and naturally, started to flinch due to the anticipation of recoil, sending shots to 7 o'clock. Left alone, she would have kept doing that all night. My method was to explain what's going on with her brain and muscles, and the key part - when she sent a shot to 7 o'clock, to PAUSE, reset her brain, and focus on isolating that trigger finger and going for the surprise break.

The end result was a brand new shooter, at the end of the evening, that recognized when she flinched and corrected her behaviour right away. I think the last mag was 8/10 on target. The two shots that dropped were much less severe than at the start.

Spend more time doing things correctly, and you'll have less to try and undo later on.
 
Get some snap caps and spend some time in your basement practicing mag reloads and lots of dry firing.
Check out TRex Arms video on YouTube on cross eye dominant shooting.
Lots of other valuable resources on YouTube.
 
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