Rechambering antiques?

NorthWoods22 said:
Any 38 special revolver will be able to chamber 38 colt, because 38 colt is the parent case for 38 special.

And any antique chambered in 38 colt loses its antique status exemption
View attachment 882850
Click to expand...
In theory you would be correct. The reality is that if you buy new Starline 38 LC brass, it is merely shorter 38 special.
Which is not correct for a 38 LC. Brew up a middling load in new 38 LC Starline brass and run a few through a factory 1895 Colt 38 LC.
It'll split brand new cases...the chambers are too big.
If someone could get OEM 38 LC ammo and try it in a 38 Spl...that would be interesting to see if it would fit at all.
Wiki is merely folks offering their learned ( sometimes) opinions.
Needs fact checking usually.
The bullet dia is off as well, have to run HB PL 38 spl pills to get a seal in a 38 LC.
Not meaning to offend of course, but the wiki info is a little 'loose' factually.
 
tokguy said:
In theory you would be correct. The reality is that if you buy new Starline 38 LC brass, it is merely shorter 38 special.
Which is not correct for a 38 LC. Brew up a middling load in new 38 LC Starline brass and run a few through a factory 1895 Colt 38 LC.
It'll split brand new cases...the chambers are too big.
If someone could get OEM 38 LC ammo and try it in a 38 Spl...that would be interesting to see if it would fit at all.
Wiki is merely folks offering their learned ( sometimes) opinions.
Needs fact checking usually.
The bullet dia is off as well, have to run HB PL 38 spl pills to get a seal in a 38 LC.
Not meaning to offend of course, but the wiki info is a little 'loose' factually.
Click to expand...
Easy :) I have a bunch of old ammo that was given to me, someone's old collection. I don't collect myself but it helps me check things.

Anyhow, there is an old 38 colt cartridge, lead bullet has gone white, headstamp is wraco - so guessing 60s?

Pulled 5 differentl revolvers from the upcoming export, mostly mod 60, but also some others. All 38sp marked, not 357. 38colt fits in all of them, so the size difference is within tolerances for factory chamberings and factory ammo.

I'm sure you could chamber 38sp carefully in such a way as to fit 38sp but not 38colt or sw and leave a visible mark to show the chambers are long for sp and not others but it's up to the lab to accept that. Also remember the wording of the 'antique letters' - 'based on the information provided' so they reserve the right to say the gun is not antique at a later time, say it's not when you get dragged into court.

I'm now thinking a letter from a gunsmith stating the chambering was done using a 38sp reamer and tested to accept 38sp would go a long way too. But then what kind of repercussions might that gunsmith face if the lab disagrees in front of a judge? Would that letter have to be from a CFO licensed gunsmith?

Can of worms :) Would I be interested in trying this just because I enjoy pushing the boundaries... Yes! If I find a frame or an otherwise broken revolver needing a new barrel an cylinder. I think step 1 would be to try some dummy chambers to see if I can make them take 38sp only... Anyone have a broken antique saa? (easier to try with one of those first) Or, now that I'm thinking of it, non antique? But still first gen and preferably 41, though 45 will probably be fine just to try the conversion?
 
Last edited:
Thanks friend. I've wondered on that
I have 2 1892's in 38 Long Colt...both of them had/ have huge chambers.
One cylinder had the forcing cones in it and one was straight though.
Picked them up for 250 per unit.
Some of the 89's were cut to fit 92 parts and some not.
Too easy to get a source for parts to upgrade. Having rebuilt and tuned an 89, I jumped on that.
But all I had for brass was 38 spl, cut some down and tried that. Nope, too thick as the case wall thickness increases too much.
Used the unit w/straight wall cylinder and lightly loaded 38 spl. Looked a bit like an old glass coke bottle, but it worked.
Starline brass showed up and I had gotten busy working away. Years later I brewed up a mild load and tried it.
Wrecked that cylinder of brass and didn't mess with it again.
Always wondered on the size difference, pretty sure mine would click if you filled the cylinder with empties and gave it a shake.
The shell collections I had didn't have 38 LC, how to disallow or verify?
So I have a grand total of 44 brand new Starline brass in 38 LC... I figured a 38 spl would wander my way soon enough.
Which it didn't, and then the Regime in power locked down all sales...
Still have 1.5 92's in 38 LC...sold one to a fella on here to rebuild his 92 ( still have the frame naturally as it is the registered component) and kept one to upgrade the 89.
Found a Smith who is a good fit for the work...but these things take time.
Haven't even shook his hand yet, soon...
 
tokguy said:
In theory you would be correct. The reality is that if you buy new Starline 38 LC brass, it is merely shorter 38 special.
Click to expand...
Yes, that is because 38 special was designed to be elongated 38 Colt, just like 357 was designed to be elongated 38 special. This is well documented (see standard catalog of S&W by Jim Supica) when S&W came up with the model 1899.

It's not a tolerance thing, the case head, powder chamber, and projectile specifications are all identical. The only thing that differs is case length.
Untitled.png
If you doubt wikipedia then feel free to check SAAMI / CIP specs, they are publicly available: https://bobp.cip-bobp.org/en/tdcc_public


Same relationship as 44 Russian -> 44 Special -> 44 Magnum.

38 S&W is the odd one out because it has a larger diameter.
 
Oh.
I was incorrect then.
I merely assumed that because my Colt ballooned out 38 Special in addition to the larger bore meant 38 Special was actually a slightly smaller case as well as bullet diameter.
Cool that that other fellow had a 38 LC cartridge.
Must be a Colt thing, it is peculiar also that one had forcing cones in the cylinder and one cut straight through.
Having had a few, the 89/92's are quirky beasts.
One does have to wonder where Colt went with some designs.
77, 78, and 89's all had weak ass lock ups. Colt seemed to struggle with their 1st DA wheelguns.
92 improvements were all cobbled on to the original 89 IIRC.
They went backwards from the 73, which locked up like a bank vault.
92 is the best of the other lot by far though.
IMO
Cheers
 
going back to the original question of "can I change" I think people need to keep in mind that cartridges on the no-go list can easily be added to and quite possibly will be if any significant people are thought to be converting to something semi modern. If only an occasional gun is changed to 38 special, big brother is unlikely to worry about it. If a lot of guns are changed something is likely to be added to the regulations to make the gun modern and restricted. An example would be that for the first few years of the recent regulations, it was semi common for people to purchase something like a 45 long colt and have it modified to a cartridge not on the list and then have the gun removed from the registry. The Ottawa started to notice and brought in the interpretation that the gun had to have been originally made in an antique caliber (ie a no-go cartridge) otherwise it would remain restricted or prohibited as it was in its original configuration. So long as cartridges are thought to be difficult to obtain, they are not likely to be added to the no-go list while those that appear easy to obtain may be added

cheers mooncoon
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom