Recoil diagnosis advice please...

[Protege]

Hey guys/gals

I was at the range this past weekend and finally was able to record myself. First my setup: weatherby vanguard s2 .223 rem, 10-40x50 scope, primos front shooting rest, caldwell rear bag. Bench shooting at 100m. Analyzing how the gun recoils, it looks the same as any shooting fundamental videos - where the gun recoils straight back, and the forend does not jump off the rest. However when looking through the scope during recoil, the sight does move up, and the crosshair does not come back to point of aim. During this cycle though i am still able to see the bullet print the hole. Am i on the right track at all?

As an aside i still have to work on my flinch.

 

[snooze98k]

The gun will recoil upwards based on the stock of the rifle not being perfectly inline with the barrel.
The firearm pushes straight back from the centerline of the barrel, and 95% of rifles are built with a lowered buttstock
This can be countered two ways, use a well tuned muzzle rise mitigator to push the barrel down or put the barrel in a perfect centerline with the buttstock.

Your fundamentals of supporting the rifle will also come into play, but anyone will notice instant improvements changing the gun first.

 

[K0na_stinky]

The gun will recoil upwards based on the stock of the rifle not being perfectly inline with the barrel.
The firearm pushes straight back from the centerline of the barrel, and 95% of rifles are built with a lowered buttstock
This can be countered two ways, use a well tuned muzzle rise mitigator to push the barrel down or put the barrel in a perfect centerline with the buttstock.

Your fundamentals of supporting the rifle will also come into play, but anyone will notice instant improvements changing the gun first.

This change the gun attitude is pretty common. Its fine if you have endless amounts of money to spend, but for most of us it might not be the best option. It usually leads to people getting bored of their rifle in a short period of time rather then spreading the upgrades over years of shooting.

Work on getting more of your body mass behind the gun. Try shooting prone and lay parallel to your rifle. This will get the most weight possible behind the rifle. If this fixes the hop then you will know for bench shooting you have to figure out how to position yourself better.

Personally I don't shoot from a bench. So far I've never come across one in the field so it seems they are a little impractical.

 

[SND]

Good topic, I have yet to manage to keep my 308 from ending up looking at the next target to the left when shooting ftr.

 

[Terry Perkins]

As an aside i still have to work on my flinch.

Have someone load or pretend to load your rifle without you looking. Then pull the trigger. This will show your flinch when "not loaded", and remind you that pulling the trigger with or without a loaded round should be no difference. Several sessions of this exercise should cure your flinch.

I have yet to manage to keep my 308 from ending up looking at the next target to the left when shooting ftr.

As K0na_stinky said,"Work on getting more of your body mass behind the gun." As in shift your hips more to the right if you're right handed.

 

[Mystic Precision]

having a rifle move from POA after recoil is pretty much universal. The amount and severity has as much to do with the shooter as it does with the rifle set up.

Have a look at the set ups for SR BR. About as good as it gets for consisten and fast follow through BUT everything is engineered to track properly and repeatably. Your hunting stock is not. It was designed to let a hunter put 1 shot on target. There are plenty of short comings with the generic hunting stock when repeated accurate fire is desired.

Here proper stock, rests and bags will make a world of difference but if you are putting bullets on target within the accuracy potential of the rifle, all's good. A mini van only goes so fast no matter what you do.

SND, what you describe is also pretty universal in FTR with conventional gear. The heavier the bullet, the more pronounced this becomes. The solution is to not use anything conventional. Came up with my own solutions in a very different stock layout and geometry. It has really made tracking and follow through far better.

From the MPOD geometry and the stock offsets and dimensions, I changed everything to make this process easier. No problem shooting bullets up to 230gr and staying on my target.

YMMV.

Jerry

 

[SND]

I need to eventually take the time to try more things for shooting position/comfort. I think some of it is my right hand pushing a bit sideways with the recoil/angle, at least its fairly consistent on how far left it ends up. Shooting 4-5 times a year ain't exactly cutting it so far.


Jerry, about how fast are those 230's going? 2500ish?

 

[snooze98k]

Unfortunately barrel hop is not really a tendancy due to bad form but more so how the rifle was designed.
OP is trying to change the rifles intended design to improve target acquisition on the follow up or for spotting purposes.

You can also add weight to the rifle i.e. A bipod which will decrease the muzzle rise. Without physically holding the weatherby down and/or my other suggestions, i feel there is little one can change to achieve a better effect with this hunting rifle.

Best of luck, keep shooting!

This change the gun attitude is pretty common. Its fine if you have endless amounts of money to spend, but for most of us it might not be the best option. It usually leads to people getting bored of their rifle in a short period of time rather then spreading the upgrades over years of shooting.

Work on getting more of your body mass behind the gun. Try shooting prone and lay parallel to your rifle. This will get the most weight possible behind the rifle. If this fixes the hop then you will know for bench shooting you have to figure out how to position yourself better.

Personally I don't shoot from a bench. So far I've never come across one in the field so it seems they are a little impractical.

 

[Mystic Precision]

I need to eventually take the time to try more things for shooting position/comfort. I think some of it is my right hand pushing a bit sideways with the recoil/angle, at least its fairly consistent on how far left it ends up. Shooting 4-5 times a year ain't exactly cutting it so far.


Jerry, about how fast are those 230's going? 2500ish?

I was around 2450fps... Recoil was well controlled but it was just a bit higher then I wanted to deal with over a long match like the Nationals so I have dropped down in weight.

To reduce that left movement, I move my hips right.. but then I have also changed all the stock proportions to fit me alot better then any standard stock. It still moves a bit left but when I am in the "zone", I have kept the reticle inside the 4 and even 5 ring at 1000yds.... That'll work

Jerry

 

[Protege]

Thanks for the advice guys. Much appreciated. To make things clear, i am talking about shooter fundamentals. Nothing to do with problems with equipment. Watching tutorials on youtube explain only what's happening from the outside - the gun recoiling backwards. No one is talking about what the shooter is experiencing through the scope. My initial assumption was that it is similar to shooting handguns - in that, if proper fundamentals are implemented the handgun will come back to poa after recoil.

Jerry @mystic basically gave the answer and affirmation i am looking for. What i am experiencing through the scope during recoil is normal. I can still see the bullet print the hole during recoil, and after recoil the scope is still pointing at the target, but my reticle is off from poa. There is still a lot of adjustments to be made on my part but at least i know i am in the right track.

As far as flinching and jerking the trigger, i find that a majority of my problem is not knowing what i am suppose to experience during recoil. So i am trying to compensate just before i pull the trigger - resulting in inconsistent groups. Now that i know what is normal during recoil it should eliminate a huge chunk of my flinch problem.

Thanks guys.