Recommend Powder for 30-30 and 8x57.
- Thread starter mosinmaster
- Start date
IMR 4064 will work for both, but there are better powders for both as well.
I would consider the best 30-30 IMR powder to be 3031, but now we have
Leverevolution, a spectacular performer in the 30-30.
As far as the 8mm with a 200 grain bullet, something just a bit slower than
4064 will deliver top velocities. I really like VV N550 in my 8x57, but also have
had great results with 100V. D.
I would consider the best 30-30 IMR powder to be 3031, but now we have
Leverevolution, a spectacular performer in the 30-30.
As far as the 8mm with a 200 grain bullet, something just a bit slower than
4064 will deliver top velocities. I really like VV N550 in my 8x57, but also have
had great results with 100V. D.
john-brennan
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Vancouver Island B.C.
3031 for the 30-30
4895 for the 8x57
Is what a friend of mine has had good results with.
4895 for the 8x57
Is what a friend of mine has had good results with.
OP. You don't mention what type of rifles you're shooting.
I would assume a Lever Action type for the 30-30 and a Mauser type action for the 8x57.
The 30-30 is also available in Savage bolt actions and some single shot, hinged, falling block actions. These alternative actions are VERY STRONG and will deliver much better performance than lever rifles.
The only real issue with these alternatives is the case is rather light for high pressures in the 30-30 case. The 8x57 cases offered are strong enough for loads well beyond those listed in the manuals.
As for the 8X57, it's a whole different game when it's loaded to its full potential. Loading data and commercial loadings are purposely held to lower sub 45,000psi in deference to rifles with .318 bore diameters, or that's the claim. I've heard other things but who knows.
Mauser 98 actions in good condition are very strong. They are capable of much higher pressures and velocities.
I find you request for information a bit strange. Not the information but WHY.
You have a good trader rating and from your nickname, you're familiar with Mosins.
The pressures developed in the Mosins for issue ammunition are almost identical to the issue ammunition for the K98 Mausers.
I assume you know this???
I'm also wondering why you want to limit yourself to ONE powder for both?? Are you new to hand loading??? Strapped for cash???
Also, why the HEAVY WEIGHTS?? Yes, they will do the job but if you're trying to duplicate original performances, the bullets available for those loads no longer exist. Some new bullets come close.
The best powder, IMHO, that would give good performance in both rifles, no matter which action type you're using would be W-748.
This powder is good for many other cartridges, including the Mosins and other surplus types.
If you're loading for alternative actions, W-748 is a BALL type powder and there is enough room in the cases to increase the loads for better performance.
One other thing, with W748 you should use magnum primers for best consistency between shots.
W748 covers a lot of other powders as far as usefulness goes. It was well ahead of its time when it was released and its only been about 10 years or so that some of the newer offerings such as Varget, which would also be a great powder that is useful in both of the cases you mention.
This is just IMHO of course but it was developed from personal experience. I suggest you get a decent manual, or go online to the actual powder maker sites and get the information they suggest for loads.
I would assume a Lever Action type for the 30-30 and a Mauser type action for the 8x57.
The 30-30 is also available in Savage bolt actions and some single shot, hinged, falling block actions. These alternative actions are VERY STRONG and will deliver much better performance than lever rifles.
The only real issue with these alternatives is the case is rather light for high pressures in the 30-30 case. The 8x57 cases offered are strong enough for loads well beyond those listed in the manuals.
As for the 8X57, it's a whole different game when it's loaded to its full potential. Loading data and commercial loadings are purposely held to lower sub 45,000psi in deference to rifles with .318 bore diameters, or that's the claim. I've heard other things but who knows.
Mauser 98 actions in good condition are very strong. They are capable of much higher pressures and velocities.
I find you request for information a bit strange. Not the information but WHY.
You have a good trader rating and from your nickname, you're familiar with Mosins.
The pressures developed in the Mosins for issue ammunition are almost identical to the issue ammunition for the K98 Mausers.
I assume you know this???
I'm also wondering why you want to limit yourself to ONE powder for both?? Are you new to hand loading??? Strapped for cash???
Also, why the HEAVY WEIGHTS?? Yes, they will do the job but if you're trying to duplicate original performances, the bullets available for those loads no longer exist. Some new bullets come close.
The best powder, IMHO, that would give good performance in both rifles, no matter which action type you're using would be W-748.
This powder is good for many other cartridges, including the Mosins and other surplus types.
If you're loading for alternative actions, W-748 is a BALL type powder and there is enough room in the cases to increase the loads for better performance.
One other thing, with W748 you should use magnum primers for best consistency between shots.
W748 covers a lot of other powders as far as usefulness goes. It was well ahead of its time when it was released and its only been about 10 years or so that some of the newer offerings such as Varget, which would also be a great powder that is useful in both of the cases you mention.
This is just IMHO of course but it was developed from personal experience. I suggest you get a decent manual, or go online to the actual powder maker sites and get the information they suggest for loads.
mosinmaster
CGN frequent flyer
I just started reloading and started with my 270 Winchester which I had good success with. See the thread below in the sub-forum.
I am shooting a Marlin 30AS and a Husqvarna 648 built on a FN98 receiver. Money is not an issue, so I could buy separate powders for each. I was just looking for something economical and convenient. I also plan to get a 308 Winchester, again, and IMR4064/3031 would fit it as well.
I'm trying to assign a role for each rifle. 30-30 170gr for blacktail/blackbear <150meter iron sight hunts in dense forest, 270 winchester for 300m+ whitetail/mulie hunts in foothills/alpine situations, and an all rounder 8x57 200gr fully loaded to WWII Wehrmacht power level that can take down bears, moose, elk etc at distance or in close, and function as a wilderness utility rifle.
I'm still learning about ballistics on game animals, but isn't the purpose of shooting heavy for caliber bullets to maximize penetration via sectional density? The high efficient cartridges between .264-.284 (6.5x55, .270Win, 7x57, .280 Remington) caliber are considered ideal because they have high BC, with the bullets being long and sleek providing for improved trajectory and penetration by design? However, if you shoot the heavier weight bullets in these calibers, you can further increase penetration via sectional density? We focus a lot on velocity and bullet mass and the kinetic energy = 1/2mv^2 formula, which favours increased velocity given the squared value. However, a lighter bullet having a flatter trajectory and higher velocity, may not penetrate adequately into medium-heavy game, hence the bullet design also factors in, which confounds terminal ballistics.
I pulled these descriptions from Hornady's website, and based on this, one might choose one of the medium weight bullets for caliber (i.e. 165gr in 30cal, or 140gr in .270cal), with an expensive bullet (Nosler Ballistic Tip or Partition) that expands for the game targeted, and lands in the middle of the caliber's velocity range allowing for a cartridge that optimizes all 3 factors as much as possible. Lastly, for long range shooting, don't heavier bullets tend to be more accurate as they are more stable in the wind?
DESIGN
Bullets designed with heavier jackets tend to stay together better and penetrate deeper, while lighter jacketed bullets tend to fragment and expand more rapidly, creating a wider wound channel and increasing temporary cavitation, but generally don’t achieve as much penetration.
Expansion can be controlled by the bullet’s tip design and by the jacket construction. Rapidly expanding bullets create a wider wound channel, displacing even more tissue and increasing temporary cavitation, but they also increase drag, thus requiring more energy and momentum to drive through tissue, and in general don’t penetrate as deeply as bullets designed to expand more slowly. Expansion is beneficial, but penetration is essential in order to ensure that the bullet reaches the animal’s vitals.
SECTIONAL DENSITY
A bullet’s sectional density also affects the amount of damage it can cause. Sectional density (a bullet’s weight in pounds divided by its diameter squared) describes a bullet’s length for its diameter: The higher the number, the longer the bullet. Generally speaking, the larger a bullet’s sectional density, the deeper it will penetrate.
VELOCITY
The third thing mentioned, velocity, also can have a large effect on a bullet’s performance. Velocity is often the culprit behind premature bullet destruction because as velocity increases, so does drag, and the tissue being entered gets “harder,” in effect, because it cannot get out of the way fast enough. A simple analogy would be the difference between stepping into a swimming pool versus diving into it from a tall diving platform.
https://www.hornady.com/team-hornady/ballistic-calculators/ballistic-resources/terminal-ballistics
P.S. I don't have a 91/30 Mosin anymore, but if the right M39 Finnish came by, I'd pick one up again.
I am shooting a Marlin 30AS and a Husqvarna 648 built on a FN98 receiver. Money is not an issue, so I could buy separate powders for each. I was just looking for something economical and convenient. I also plan to get a 308 Winchester, again, and IMR4064/3031 would fit it as well.
I'm trying to assign a role for each rifle. 30-30 170gr for blacktail/blackbear <150meter iron sight hunts in dense forest, 270 winchester for 300m+ whitetail/mulie hunts in foothills/alpine situations, and an all rounder 8x57 200gr fully loaded to WWII Wehrmacht power level that can take down bears, moose, elk etc at distance or in close, and function as a wilderness utility rifle.
I'm still learning about ballistics on game animals, but isn't the purpose of shooting heavy for caliber bullets to maximize penetration via sectional density? The high efficient cartridges between .264-.284 (6.5x55, .270Win, 7x57, .280 Remington) caliber are considered ideal because they have high BC, with the bullets being long and sleek providing for improved trajectory and penetration by design? However, if you shoot the heavier weight bullets in these calibers, you can further increase penetration via sectional density? We focus a lot on velocity and bullet mass and the kinetic energy = 1/2mv^2 formula, which favours increased velocity given the squared value. However, a lighter bullet having a flatter trajectory and higher velocity, may not penetrate adequately into medium-heavy game, hence the bullet design also factors in, which confounds terminal ballistics.
I pulled these descriptions from Hornady's website, and based on this, one might choose one of the medium weight bullets for caliber (i.e. 165gr in 30cal, or 140gr in .270cal), with an expensive bullet (Nosler Ballistic Tip or Partition) that expands for the game targeted, and lands in the middle of the caliber's velocity range allowing for a cartridge that optimizes all 3 factors as much as possible. Lastly, for long range shooting, don't heavier bullets tend to be more accurate as they are more stable in the wind?
DESIGN
Bullets designed with heavier jackets tend to stay together better and penetrate deeper, while lighter jacketed bullets tend to fragment and expand more rapidly, creating a wider wound channel and increasing temporary cavitation, but generally don’t achieve as much penetration.
Expansion can be controlled by the bullet’s tip design and by the jacket construction. Rapidly expanding bullets create a wider wound channel, displacing even more tissue and increasing temporary cavitation, but they also increase drag, thus requiring more energy and momentum to drive through tissue, and in general don’t penetrate as deeply as bullets designed to expand more slowly. Expansion is beneficial, but penetration is essential in order to ensure that the bullet reaches the animal’s vitals.
SECTIONAL DENSITY
A bullet’s sectional density also affects the amount of damage it can cause. Sectional density (a bullet’s weight in pounds divided by its diameter squared) describes a bullet’s length for its diameter: The higher the number, the longer the bullet. Generally speaking, the larger a bullet’s sectional density, the deeper it will penetrate.
VELOCITY
The third thing mentioned, velocity, also can have a large effect on a bullet’s performance. Velocity is often the culprit behind premature bullet destruction because as velocity increases, so does drag, and the tissue being entered gets “harder,” in effect, because it cannot get out of the way fast enough. A simple analogy would be the difference between stepping into a swimming pool versus diving into it from a tall diving platform.
https://www.hornady.com/team-hornady/ballistic-calculators/ballistic-resources/terminal-ballistics
P.S. I don't have a 91/30 Mosin anymore, but if the right M39 Finnish came by, I'd pick one up again.
Last edited:
dgradinaru
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- British Columbia
3031 AND 4064 with standard primers worked great in the 8x57 based on my expirence which is from Ken Waters data.
200 GR LOADS THAT IM CURRENTLY USING IN MY RIFLES, WORK UP!
46.5GR IMR 3031=2550 FPS( 22inch) 2600 fps in 23.6"
48GR IMR 4064=2575 FPS(22inch) 2625 fps in 23.6"
These are full power Euro spec loads, a tad bit more velocity than the German WWII load. Which was at 2500fps.
200 GR LOADS THAT IM CURRENTLY USING IN MY RIFLES, WORK UP!
46.5GR IMR 3031=2550 FPS( 22inch) 2600 fps in 23.6"
48GR IMR 4064=2575 FPS(22inch) 2625 fps in 23.6"
These are full power Euro spec loads, a tad bit more velocity than the German WWII load. Which was at 2500fps.
