I was gonna make some reduced loads for the 30-06 and was wondering how much lower of a powder charge from the starting load with imr 4064 and or R15 I can go . looking to get around 2000 to 2200fps with a 165 G sp. anyone have any published data or experiance with this type of load?
reduced 30-06 loads
- Thread starter Barracuda
- Start date
H4895 is probably a better bet for reduced loads. Hodgdon claims you can go down to 60% of a max load and still be safe and get good results
somewhere around 38-40 grains of H4895 should get you around 2200 f/s with a 165 grain in 30-06
somewhere around 38-40 grains of H4895 should get you around 2200 f/s with a 165 grain in 30-06
Try looking up an article on using 13 grs. of Red Dot. I believe it was written by Ed Harris. Very useful information on reduced loads for .30-06 class sized cases.
I've used 13 gr.s Red Dot in .308 Win with 150 gr. Hornady Interlocks and 5-shot groups were easily 1.5" or under at 100 yds. Never tried a lot of them but 3-4 5-shot groups was sufficient for my testing purposes.
I've used 13 gr.s Red Dot in .308 Win with 150 gr. Hornady Interlocks and 5-shot groups were easily 1.5" or under at 100 yds. Never tried a lot of them but 3-4 5-shot groups was sufficient for my testing purposes.
"... how much lower of a powder charge from the starting load with imr 4064 and or R15 I can go..." None. That's why it's called a 'starting load'. Loading below there is just as dangerous as loading above the max load.
If you want less recoil, use a lighter bullet, but follow your manual religiously.
If you want less recoil, use a lighter bullet, but follow your manual religiously.
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
I had very good luck with 210 gr cast bullets ahead of 25 grs of SR-4759, velocity ran around 1800 fps and the accuracy was pleasing.
The Lyman cast bullet manual lists the lightest .30/06 load for 4895 at 28.0 grs and for 4064 is 29.0 grs, both behind a 160 gr bullet. Velocity for both loads is a hair over 1700 fps.
The Lyman cast bullet manual lists the lightest .30/06 load for 4895 at 28.0 grs and for 4064 is 29.0 grs, both behind a 160 gr bullet. Velocity for both loads is a hair over 1700 fps.
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Reduced 30/06 loads
Until about 5 or so years ago Dupont Powders (IMR) used to print a 40 page booklet in which they listed all the most common ctgs. They then listed the max load for EVERY powder they manufacured for EACH ctg. and provided the pressure findings represented in "C.U.P.S". No minimum loads..best loads.. just Max loads.
When I first started makeing reduced loads.. way before I got into useing pistol/shotgun etc. powders I went to this booklet. Usually when we build loads
we want the most efficient powder and highest safe velocity. In reduced loads you want the least efficient powder and that it results in the lowest velocities.
For the 30/06.. IMR lists the first three "inefficient" powders as:
SR4759..then Imr4227..then Imr4198.... fired in 23 inch brl.
150 grain (unspecified make)
SR 4759....31.0 grains..2365 fps...49.700 CUP (Copper units pressure)
IMR4227....30.0 grains..2310........50,000
IMR4198....38.0 grains..2600 .......50,000
180 grain
Sr4759.....29.5 grains....2135 fps..50,000 cup
IMR4227...28.5 grains....2045 fps..49,800
IMR4198...36.0 grains....2350 fps..49,800
As you can see, velocities are low. Pressures run about the same as their max loads for IMR 3031..4895..4064...4320 in this booklet..49,000 to 50,000 cup.
I started with IMR4198, which most know, has been used for reduced loads for decades in nearly all bottle-neck cases with excellent accuracy. Started at just under max in the booklet and worked my way backwards until I got the reduced velocity I wanted . I went much lower too until some bullets keyholed due to lack of stability at 1000 +/- fps. and accuracy was also found in the 1200 to 1400 fps range
I did the same with IMR4227....useing both powders, all were tested with 110 gr..150 gr...180gr.
Results with all weights and both powders was at least one load that shot one inch at 100 yds in each bullet weight tested.. in the 1600 to 2200 fps range...
These two powder testings worked just as well in .308 win. and 30/30 win. as well as the .222...223...243...338 mag for me useing the applicable booklet charts per ctg. and working backwards.
If this type of load work up is within "your comfort zone " it may prove just as feasable as the "IMR4895 can be reduced to 60% " often quoted.....if not, or you feel this process is unsafe.. as usual, please disregard my findings.
Until about 5 or so years ago Dupont Powders (IMR) used to print a 40 page booklet in which they listed all the most common ctgs. They then listed the max load for EVERY powder they manufacured for EACH ctg. and provided the pressure findings represented in "C.U.P.S". No minimum loads..best loads.. just Max loads.
When I first started makeing reduced loads.. way before I got into useing pistol/shotgun etc. powders I went to this booklet. Usually when we build loads
we want the most efficient powder and highest safe velocity. In reduced loads you want the least efficient powder and that it results in the lowest velocities.
For the 30/06.. IMR lists the first three "inefficient" powders as:
SR4759..then Imr4227..then Imr4198.... fired in 23 inch brl.
150 grain (unspecified make)
SR 4759....31.0 grains..2365 fps...49.700 CUP (Copper units pressure)
IMR4227....30.0 grains..2310........50,000
IMR4198....38.0 grains..2600 .......50,000
180 grain
Sr4759.....29.5 grains....2135 fps..50,000 cup
IMR4227...28.5 grains....2045 fps..49,800
IMR4198...36.0 grains....2350 fps..49,800
As you can see, velocities are low. Pressures run about the same as their max loads for IMR 3031..4895..4064...4320 in this booklet..49,000 to 50,000 cup.
I started with IMR4198, which most know, has been used for reduced loads for decades in nearly all bottle-neck cases with excellent accuracy. Started at just under max in the booklet and worked my way backwards until I got the reduced velocity I wanted . I went much lower too until some bullets keyholed due to lack of stability at 1000 +/- fps. and accuracy was also found in the 1200 to 1400 fps range
I did the same with IMR4227....useing both powders, all were tested with 110 gr..150 gr...180gr.
Results with all weights and both powders was at least one load that shot one inch at 100 yds in each bullet weight tested.. in the 1600 to 2200 fps range...
These two powder testings worked just as well in .308 win. and 30/30 win. as well as the .222...223...243...338 mag for me useing the applicable booklet charts per ctg. and working backwards.
If this type of load work up is within "your comfort zone " it may prove just as feasable as the "IMR4895 can be reduced to 60% " often quoted.....if not, or you feel this process is unsafe.. as usual, please disregard my findings.
- Location
- North Thompson, B.C.
Ah, I see 4570 has posted some excellent information. I'll add my two bits, seeing's as you did ask.....
I’m no expert by any means, and certainly have a lot to learn. But like you, I’m interested in trying to safely wring the most out of a versatile caliber, with different loadings for different purposes. So I’d like to pass on a few things that may help with reduced loads, for some one on my level. Before putting the old ‘06 on a diet, there are a few considerations:
-What are you going to be using the loads for? Target practice or medium game? If you load down quite a bit it is a good idea to have a bullet that’s designed to perform at those lower velocities on game, if that’s what the use will be. Tougher bullets may not expand properly at lower terminal velocities.
-Be very cautious about reducing loads of slower burning powders, I wouldn’t personally go below the minimum charges for such powders as listed in the major manuals. Doing so can apparently lead to a phenomenon which can blow a rifle up. There are many powders, such as SR4759, which can be safely used at reduced charges, if manuals are adhered to. But, reducing a charge to half or less of the cartridge capacity can lead to another potential, very dangerous problem……………
-It is possible to “double charge” the case. We can all make mistakes - so, with the charged cases all lined neatly up in the block, take a flashlight and methodically, one by one, look into each one, to be sure that you haven’t done that. A double charge of fast burning powder could produce pressures that would point out to you the weakest part of your gun.
-With reduced charges you might notice protruding primers after firing, the degree depending on the amount of headspace your rifle has. The reasons have been well covered in other threads on forums. I have one 30-06 which I think has a bit more headspace than some. What I do, right or wrong, is start off with once fired cases, from full loads, which will stretch the case out to fit the chamber. Then I neck size only for the reduced loads, and dedicate these cases for that purpose only.
-Apparently if the charge is reduced too much, there may not be enough pressure to push the bullet all the way down the barrel. I think that might have to be an awfully light charge though. Anyway, if things don’t sound or seem right, be sure to check that the barrel is clear before firing another round. A bullet sleeping in the barrel may resent a shove in the butt from another one…...
-If you use the same or similar bullet for reduced loads as you use for full throttle ones, be sure to keep them separate, and/or mark them. Although you can usually tell by shaking them, you probably wouldn’t want that plinker in the chamber when you take a really long shot, or get charged by that grizzly that wants to take over and finish your field dressing job.
I have a Speer manual, which lists reduced loads for many calibers, and a Lyman manual with quite a bit of cast bullet loading data. Both will give you an idea of which powders might be worth looking into for reduced loads. Bear in mind that just because the loads are light with the fast burning powders, it does not necessarily follow that the pressures will be accordingly light. In working up a load be cautious, and keep the eyes open for all the usual signs.
I also think the Hodgdon “youth loads” would be a safe route to stick to.
Before I heard of them I researched and came up with a 30-06 reduced load that works very well in my rifles, as an all purpose “30-30/06” round. 150 grain Hornady RN (30-30 bullet), pushed by 32 g. of IMR 4198 to 2300 fps. Very good groups for me too, for a half filled case. Maybe that has to do with 4198 supposedly not being as position sensitive as some other powders. I am not suggesting that anyone try this load, just that it works for me. Hope this helps some.
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
And all that takes is a moment of in attention. About 10 years ago now I was shooting my M-17 .30/06 with 210 gr cast bullets over 25 grs of SR-4759 across a chronograph; pop-1818, pop-1834, pop-1820, BOOM-2850!!
Yup, I inadvertently double charged the round. Thankfully I had a strong rifle. The old fellow who was shooting with me said, "You lucky SOB!" The action was frozen shut, and I pounded the bolt open with a 2X4. There didn't appear to be any damage, but the primer lay in the bottom of the magazine, the flash hole opened up as big as the primer pocket, and Remington-Peters was permanently engraved in mirror image on the bolt face. Aside from ringing ears I was fine, but I don't know if I would of done as well had I loaded jacketed bullets.
I continued to use that rifle for quite some time, and it remained accurate and dependable. I have always been a cautious reloader, but because I knew I was making low pressure rounds I may of let my mind wander for just a moment, or perhaps I was interrupted and didn't check the case when I returned. It doesn't really matter how it happened, fortunately I was able to learn from the experience. Now I am very very careful when I load small charges in large cartridges.
If you are serious about shooting light loads in your 30-06 join this forum:http://castboolits.gunloads.com/index.php
Shooting cast bullets is a hoot and a very reqarding hobby. My Husqavarna will keep three rounds inside of 1/2" at 100 yards using Lyman 311091 bullets over 20 gr of 2400. Recoil is light. For a galery load I have used 10 gr of Unique under the same bullet and is a can opener at 50 yards. These loads are all for lead bullets. Shooting jacketed is for weanies...
Take Care
Bob
Shooting cast bullets is a hoot and a very reqarding hobby. My Husqavarna will keep three rounds inside of 1/2" at 100 yards using Lyman 311091 bullets over 20 gr of 2400. Recoil is light. For a galery load I have used 10 gr of Unique under the same bullet and is a can opener at 50 yards. These loads are all for lead bullets. Shooting jacketed is for weanies...
Take Care
Bob
Reduced loads....
Good advice from Longleader and Boomer if anyone should go to the really reduced loads using pistol/shotgun powders as there is a lot of accuracy to be found in their useage too.
To minimize any house hold distractions is important...But a sure way of avoiding double charges for me is to have two seperate loading blocks...in one block the cases are neck down... pick up a case....powder charge added..bullet of choice dropped into the case neck.. point first.. and then transferred to the second block.
Once all cases are done I then seat the bullets as usual. Have a ctg. case I keep on a shelf in my reloading room nearly similar to Boomers ..and leave it there to remind me that my younger days of pursueing the highest velocity available was foolish.
Good advice from Longleader and Boomer if anyone should go to the really reduced loads using pistol/shotgun powders as there is a lot of accuracy to be found in their useage too.
To minimize any house hold distractions is important...But a sure way of avoiding double charges for me is to have two seperate loading blocks...in one block the cases are neck down... pick up a case....powder charge added..bullet of choice dropped into the case neck.. point first.. and then transferred to the second block.
Once all cases are done I then seat the bullets as usual. Have a ctg. case I keep on a shelf in my reloading room nearly similar to Boomers ..and leave it there to remind me that my younger days of pursueing the highest velocity available was foolish.
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