Reduced Recoil Loads
- Thread starter jeff211
- Start date
To get the young ones going, like maybe at eight years, you have to be really down. That calls for very light loads of fast powder. You should have cast bullets, if you can't, a light 32 calibre pistol bullet, like maybe 86 or 90 grains, is good for the 30 calibres.
About the only loading book that would help you on this is the old Lyman book of Cast Bullets. And just use it as a guide.
About a week ago there was an excellent article on these threads about using pistol loading data for a rifle. If you want to play it really safe, take the load for a 38 special, same amount of same powder, and use that in your 30 calibre rifles, with what ever bullet you have handy, but should not be over 150 grains. This will be a very light load, but will get you started.
On extremely light loads, the same caution is always given. Make sure the bullet gets out the barrel and does not stick in the barrel.
About the only loading book that would help you on this is the old Lyman book of Cast Bullets. And just use it as a guide.
About a week ago there was an excellent article on these threads about using pistol loading data for a rifle. If you want to play it really safe, take the load for a 38 special, same amount of same powder, and use that in your 30 calibre rifles, with what ever bullet you have handy, but should not be over 150 grains. This will be a very light load, but will get you started.
On extremely light loads, the same caution is always given. Make sure the bullet gets out the barrel and does not stick in the barrel.
I don't know why you say 'as a guide', the one I have (Cast Bullet Handbook, 3rd Edition) is a pretty thorough manual with respect to shooting reduced load, lead bullet handloads.
One reason I said as a guide, was because I have the feeling the original poster is reluctant to use data that we readers give, even if common sense dictates it is absolutely safe. I suggested he look up in that manual, if he could, and more or less verify what some of us are telling him.
Also, you will see in their Lyman Handbook of Cast Bullets, at least in my number 1 edition, they bulk some calibres. They list together, 7.62 Russian, 303 British, 303 Savage and 7.7 Japanese, and use the same data for all of them.
The point here being, when using these light loads, it really doesn't matter much what cartridge you are using. 30-06 and 308 could be used interchangeably.
I say as a guide, because I am looking at a 30-06 with 170 grain cast bullet. Out of 16 loadings with 8 powders, the slowest velocity they show is 1510, with 10.5 grains of Unique. I started a son shooting my 30-06 before he started school. Of course, they can't put the butt to their shoulder, they just let the stock go under their arm. Undr these conditions there must be no noticeable kick to the rifle.
Therefore, looking at this load of 10.5 grains of Unique for 1510 fps, which is a lot too high, I would reduce the load to maybe, 6 or 7 grains. I would like the speed to be about 750 fps, and that amount of Unique should be pretty close. Hey, don't laugh at this load, it is like a 38 Special loaded pretty good!
Thus, loads from the book may not give you what you want, but look at it as as a guide, and go fom there.
The other thing about this Lyman book on cast bullets, it shows the maximum load of every powder and bullet combination. So, don't go above their maximum. When it comes to minimum, go as low as you want to, it is perfectly safe, with the standard precaution of seeing that your super light loaded bullets gst out of the barrel.
Sorry to have gotten caried away, but it is hard to properly explain things with a few words.
Also, you will see in their Lyman Handbook of Cast Bullets, at least in my number 1 edition, they bulk some calibres. They list together, 7.62 Russian, 303 British, 303 Savage and 7.7 Japanese, and use the same data for all of them.
The point here being, when using these light loads, it really doesn't matter much what cartridge you are using. 30-06 and 308 could be used interchangeably.
I say as a guide, because I am looking at a 30-06 with 170 grain cast bullet. Out of 16 loadings with 8 powders, the slowest velocity they show is 1510, with 10.5 grains of Unique. I started a son shooting my 30-06 before he started school. Of course, they can't put the butt to their shoulder, they just let the stock go under their arm. Undr these conditions there must be no noticeable kick to the rifle.
Therefore, looking at this load of 10.5 grains of Unique for 1510 fps, which is a lot too high, I would reduce the load to maybe, 6 or 7 grains. I would like the speed to be about 750 fps, and that amount of Unique should be pretty close. Hey, don't laugh at this load, it is like a 38 Special loaded pretty good!
Thus, loads from the book may not give you what you want, but look at it as as a guide, and go fom there.
The other thing about this Lyman book on cast bullets, it shows the maximum load of every powder and bullet combination. So, don't go above their maximum. When it comes to minimum, go as low as you want to, it is perfectly safe, with the standard precaution of seeing that your super light loaded bullets gst out of the barrel.
Sorry to have gotten caried away, but it is hard to properly explain things with a few words.
Yes, that is a good powder, as is most fast pwdwer. I just used Unique as an example because it is so common. 4227 is also excellent.
And the racheting it up as they grow into it works so slick. I started the grand sons on a very lightly loaded 44 magnum Marlin 1894 with an aperature sight. I had them do nearly all their shooting off hand and that became their favourite way to shoot.
It didn't take too much Unique in the 44 to make a bang, a bit of smoke from the bullet lube and a big hole in the paper. The boys were in their glory.
My increasing the load was gradual enough that they never even noticed it, until they were eventually getting full power loads.
My boys started to shoot 308 at age 6. They only shot to 600 yards because the light load would not shoot well beyond that range.
Load was 36gr of 3031 under the Sierra 125 spitzer. The rifle weighed about 10 pounds and they shot off a sandbag for the first few years.
Load was 36gr of 3031 under the Sierra 125 spitzer. The rifle weighed about 10 pounds and they shot off a sandbag for the first few years.
OK wow I didn't expect this much response so fast, thanks guys. You have to understand I am fairly new (about a year) to reloading and don't fully understand what I can and can't do with loads so this is why I like to stick to published loads. Unfortunately the books don't specifically tell you its a reduced load, I guess that comes from experience. With the 125 sierra spitzer how did you work the load when the book lists the minimum at 40gr? thats what I would like to learn. When the book gives you the standard explanations of how reloading cam to be they tell you not to go under or over the published loads. Going over I can see the problem but is going under just a problem of the bullet getting stuck in the barrel or are there other problems that could happen?
Jeff
Jeff
- Location
- Central Alberta
Definetly check out Lyman's manual. Also, sierra had some loads in the back of the books "Red Loads" i think, light loads.In the older manual anyway.
Hang fires or detonations can happen with underloads. Both unpleasant. The solution may be to use dacron, pufflon,corn meal or florist foam as a case filler or overpowder wad to keep the propellant charge seated properly over the primer.
Underloads can be bad, I had a Husquvarna 6.5 x 55 blow up on me 1 gr. under min load with H4350 and 140 Barnes X.I got lucky. Real lucky. Bits of brass in my face, the M96 design held up and saved my head from permanent rearrangement the bolt bent in the middle, jamming it in the receiver.Gun in many pieces.$hit can happen. I believe this to be a case of the kinda urban legend slow power underload induced detonation instaed of controlled burn. She went boom alright.
That said, I use a reduced load in .45-70 with SR4759 20.0 gr. held down with a 1/8" florist foam overpowder wad, (store upright) works great.
I also made up 175 gr.gas checked cast loads for 30-06, with SR4759 and corn meal filler.
Just make sure you start working up a load with whatever filler or or wadding, don't find a load and then add it later.
Safe shooting!
Hang fires or detonations can happen with underloads. Both unpleasant. The solution may be to use dacron, pufflon,corn meal or florist foam as a case filler or overpowder wad to keep the propellant charge seated properly over the primer.
Underloads can be bad, I had a Husquvarna 6.5 x 55 blow up on me 1 gr. under min load with H4350 and 140 Barnes X.I got lucky. Real lucky. Bits of brass in my face, the M96 design held up and saved my head from permanent rearrangement the bolt bent in the middle, jamming it in the receiver.Gun in many pieces.$hit can happen. I believe this to be a case of the kinda urban legend slow power underload induced detonation instaed of controlled burn. She went boom alright.
That said, I use a reduced load in .45-70 with SR4759 20.0 gr. held down with a 1/8" florist foam overpowder wad, (store upright) works great.
I also made up 175 gr.gas checked cast loads for 30-06, with SR4759 and corn meal filler.
Just make sure you start working up a load with whatever filler or or wadding, don't find a load and then add it later.
Safe shooting!
My Speer manual lists a Reduced Load for each bullet. For the 125 in a 308 they sugggest 25 to 29 gr of 4198. Around 2000 fps. that would be a very pleasent load.
I found the Sierra 125 could be made to group around one minute.
I found the Sierra 125 could be made to group around one minute.
Hodgdon has been very pro active with data for reduced loads.
#1 Hodgdon's H4895 60% rule- Take MAX load of H 4895 and reduce it to 60%. You can tweak this up and down a bit.
#2 Use Trail Boss powder. Hodgdon has TRAILBOSS dat a for quite a few cartridges now (including 308/30-06/270) They are all light recoiling, low velocity loads.
Both of these are useful tools for training kids, or making reduced loads for small game, etc.
With these 2 methods, there is no dicking around with filler, no hangfires, and the data comes form a established company with pressure testing equipment.
#1 Hodgdon's H4895 60% rule- Take MAX load of H 4895 and reduce it to 60%. You can tweak this up and down a bit.
#2 Use Trail Boss powder. Hodgdon has TRAILBOSS dat a for quite a few cartridges now (including 308/30-06/270) They are all light recoiling, low velocity loads.
Both of these are useful tools for training kids, or making reduced loads for small game, etc.
With these 2 methods, there is no dicking around with filler, no hangfires, and the data comes form a established company with pressure testing equipment.
