Refinishing gun stock ''satin mate finish'' ?

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macpowa

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Hi, i plan to start refinish my shultz and larsen m70 stock today. I would like to get a satin mate finish, like we see on m1 garand. I found a blog online that explain stuff on the m70 : htt p://billard85.########.ca/ and the guy refinished is stocks with linseed oil. I know there is a mixture to do with the oil but i can't seem to find it anywhere. Do you have any idea of the mixture or the procedure to achieve the satin mate look?

I plan to use varnish remover and then hand sand what is left. Is it a good way to go or should i only hand sand?

(I will be my first attempt at refinishing a stock)
 
There seems to be as many views on refinishing stocks as there are guys who have refinished stocks. I've only used tung oil and have only sanded off old finish. Both worked well to give a satin matte finish. The military finish you speak of was BLO (boiled linseed oil) for both the Enfield and the Garand if I'm not mistaken.

I would practice on an old cooey or an SKS before I tried a Shultz and Larsen.
 
I've done boiled linseed oil on a couple of 96 Swedes and an Enfield. It's a bit messy, but I like the results. It's not the greatest for waterproofing, but I stil prefer it over poly finishes. I did do a Boyd's in satin spray polyurethane, and that was pretty easy actually.
If you are removing old finish go easy with the sanding. It only takes a couple of strokes to round off a sharp line, and it stands out like a sore thumb.
Remember if you do end up using linseed oil, get boiled, the raw stuff sometimes never dries, and dispose of used rags properly, they can spontaneously combust.
 
I have read a lot online since i posted this thread and i founded that some poeple are using ''finn wax'' to seal the wood and have a mate finish. I founded a website that has a lot of information/product about refinishing/cleaning gun stock. htt p://www.thegunstockdoctor.com/Products.html

His product seem really easy to make at home (rifle wax, cleaning stock and pine tar ''dye'') I will put the project on hold and maybe try to experiment some recipes and see if it fits my need.

I still really like to know the mixture for the old military finish.
 
I would suggest using a finish remover to minimize the risk of sanding off too much wood. You want to be very careful about sanding inside the action area so that you don't change any critical dimensions.

You don't have to get fancy with any mixtures. Boiled linseed oil comes with drivers already mixed in. You will want to thin it down for the first coat with a 1:1 mixture of paint thinner so that it soaks into the wood better.

Circa 1850 Tung Oil is also a very good product and it doesn't have to be thinned.

You will need to decide how you want to fill in the wood grain, either with a liquid grain filler (not wood putty) or by repeatedly wet sanding the oil into the wood with fine grit sandpaper (like 320, 400 or 600 grit). This takes time but I enjoy the process. The wood dust and oil finish mixture gradually fills and levels out the pores.

Boiled linseed oil and (real) tung oil finishes are nice because they soak into the wood and aren't tacky like varnishes which sit on the wood.

However, they require multiple applications (24 hours between applications for drying) to achieve that satin matt look. I did 10 coats.

Let the last coat dry for a week, buff the stock and then finish with a good quality paste wax.

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iirc, the old military rifles were just finished in either boiled linseed oil or tung oil (just dunked and soaked in it then wiped off) as it was cheap and simple. The oil dries to semi hard substance in air and sunlight over time, which seals the wood to protect it. The stocks would be oiled routinely (annually?) after that to maintain the finish.
 
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For stripping use circa1850. Use in a ventilated area. Then lightly sand what's left. I then steam the wood and heat it and lightly sand again. For an easy matte finish win wax wipe on poly is nice. I use it a lot. You could use tru oil then use 0000 steel wool to dull it and use a thick paste wax if you want more weather protection. I have not has any worries with the polys yet even hunting in rain and snow
 
My method is if the old finish is strippable, I use poly stripper, the gel type. Take all the finish off and stripper with steel wool and a tooth brush. be careful in the checkering. Sand the stock if you feel it is necessary with #220 grit with the butt plate on so you don't round the butt end edge while sanding or if you drop it. Recut the checkering if you have any as it will be gritted up, dirty and worn. Once your happy you have it all the way you want it the refinishing process begins. First you must fill the pores of the wood. Applying a dying oil mixture like Polymerized Tung, Lin-speed, True Oil, Shaftol, etc. two coats at a time. then reduce to the wood surface with #0000 steel wool in the direction of the grain. Repeat this process until when you draw your finger nail over the surface it fells like glass and your nail is not bumping in and out of the wood pores. This takes time and effort. This seals the wood and by filling the pores dirt and crud can not build up in the pores.
Next you apply the finish coats, How elaborate you want to be with this step depends on the time and effort you want to put into this and what end result your looking for. Usuall a couple of very thin coats applied with one or two drops of oil on a finger tip and smoothed around well is all that is needed as the pore filling process has sealed the wood now you just want something on the surface to help protect it and give the wood looks. All this should dry for about a month before any normal bush use occurs.

Like stated there are as many oil finish recipes and methods of application as there are stars in the sky and chocolate chip cookie recipes. Pick one you like, learn how to apply it for your desired results and use and your all set.
 
The wipe on poly in matt or satin depending on your taste would be a lower maintenance option than oil. Apply once then never bother with it again unless you scuff it in some area. For a lower sheen sort of finish you can start off with a flat rub on varnish then wax it to slightly improve the gloss if it's too flat for your taste. Or re-coat with the next shinier level after a light sanding with very fine sandpaper.

For a finish which is easier to repair if you scuff it you simply cannot beat an oil finish. For a lower luster look stick with boiled linseed and thin it a little with mineral spirits so it doesn't build up as fast. Depending on how much you thin the oil and how many coats you give it you can sneak up on the look you're after. Note that an oil finish wears and dulls down over time and with use. And the water resistance also drops as the look dulls out. So a periodic recoat with more oil is needed to restore the finish. If you use the thinned oil for this the solvent in the oil will cut into and clean the surface of gun and skin oils and some of the dirt that is transferred to the wood in use. With the rub on poly varnishes you can skip that and just wash it off with a rag dampened with soapy water or use a little solvent to clean the finish.

The M1 Garrand is reported to have been finished in raw tung oil. As mentioned this stuff doesn't dry for a LONG time. It's wrong to say that it never dries but it does take months of time along with sunlight and warmth to see it happen. In the meantime it picks up and holds all manner of dust and dirt. That's fine for a military gun where looks are not a big deal. Not so great for a personal gun. Also both raw linseed oil and raw tung oil have an odor that many find rather annoying. The boiled linseed oil is treated so it actually does dry in a couple of days and the smell goes away a few days after that. So it's a better option for an oil finish for any gun that is stored in the house.

There are also treated versions of tung oil. Danish oil is a popular mix of tung and linseed oils with the special driers. There's also the Minwax Tung Oil Finish and Lee Valley polymerized Tung Oil. But if you want a lower level of sheen then you should avoid the tung oils since they tend to build faster and give more of a glossier sheen.

If you start with the boiled linseed oil option and it's not shiny enough for you then you can top it with the tung oil finishes.

BUT! ! ! ! Oil finishes take a LONG time to dry before you want to re-coat it. If you re-coat too soon you'll just strip away the previous coat instead of building on it. So patience is a must for any oil finish. The first run through given that it's getting into winter is going to take a good month or more if you go with oil finishing. The thinned boiled linseed oil is going to take a good two or three days before you can re-coat if you work in the heated house. If you are in a cool garage it may take a week to 10 days to be ready for a re-coat.

The Danish oil or Minwax Tung will dry faster than this but if you're working and letting it dry in a cool place you're still looking at a couple of days between coats at this time of year.

And you want to get your terms right. The level of shine or on a surface is called the "sheen" or "lustre" (luster if you're in the US). In terms of sheen the dullest to shiniest is flat, matt (not "mate"), satin, semi gloss and gloss. If you use these terms at the paint store when shopping for a product they'll know what you want. Eggshell is another that seems pretty common but only in terms of latex paints. For varnish and other similar clear products the four terms given will make sure everyone is on the same page.
 
The Circa 1850 Tung Oil finish has thinner and dryers in it and appears to dry hard within 24 hours (the cotton cloth I use to apply it becomes rigid like a piece of plastic).

Is this not fully dry?

Also, I find the nutty odour pleasant.

I found that Linseed oil and Tru Oil stank in comparison
 
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Good informations here, lots of positive and negative on either procedure. Ill put a hold, sit and rethink what a really want.

If i go the oil way, i know that the oil penetrate the wood. Will i be able in the future to refinish the stock with other product like varnish? My father said if i use oil i will have no other choice to continue this way in the future. Is he right?
 
Given enough time for the oil to fully cure you'll find that a polyurethane won't have any problem drying/curing correctly over top. But you likely won't get a proper strength bond and under hard use the varnish might just peel off or chip away in pieces.

If you do change your mind a wash down with an automotive wax and grease remover followed by a stripping session with a good paint and varnish stripper followed by a second wash down with the wax and grease remover will remove the lion's share of any finishing oil in the wood. Well enough to switch over to polyurethane. This might be a little overkill but it'll ensure that the wood is cleaned out well enough that any slight trace of the finishing oil should not affect the cure of the poly. And the paint and varnish stripper will remove most of the cured oil so the poly can get a good bond to the wood.

If you could see how the water on a rainy day beads up and runs off my oiled shotgun stock you would not be worried about it. For a hard use hunting rifle that is oil finished I think what I'd do is rub on a "feeder" coat a week or two before the planned hunting trip. That way it's a nice fresh coating that has time to cure well before it hits the rain and mud. This would also include rubbing a feeding coat inside the barrel channel and receiver mortise or the end grain areas of any two part stocks since rain will obviously run down into those areas as well. And it's not like you don't already strip down the gun to dry out and oil those areas already. Even folks with plastic stocks need to break them down to dry out and oil such spots if the guns are used in nasty wet conditions.
 
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