Hi all. i have some pulled 7.62x39 bullets from surplus SKS rounds. i measured the diameter to be .312. can i reload these rounds into a .308 Winchester case and fire them safely in my Rem 700 SPS? if so does anyone have any suggested recipes that will work safely?
reload pulled 7.62x39 bullets into .308 win??
- Thread starter Feasabot
- Start date
Its not the loading part that is the problem, its the shooting part. One measures the lands, the other measures the grooves.
.312 bullets are not compatible for shooting in a rifle that is made for .308 bullets.
Not safe. Bad. No.
.303
Just a thought - isn't .303 British actually .312 or .313? Maybe these can be fired out of a Lee-Enfield?
Just a thought - isn't .303 British actually .312 or .313? Maybe these can be fired out of a Lee-Enfield?
- Location
- Sudbury, On
Always make sure to measure the bore of your lee first-off... 
I have squeezed 0.310" through my 308. 123g soft points from Hornady. My barrel slugged at 308.
Nice groups and good speed but they did kick a little more.
It is living on the edge a bit but I don"t think you are going to kill yourself.
Nice groups and good speed but they did kick a little more.
It is living on the edge a bit but I don"t think you are going to kill yourself.
There have been adapters available to fire 7.62x39 in 308s and 30-06s for a long time:
http://www.mcace.com/adapters.htm
If it made guns blow up, I somehow doubt he would still be selling them.
The other thing I would point out is that on 2 groove Enfield barrels, the grooves are small and only account for about 20-25% of the circumfrence that the jacket is being exposed to. Those bullets are basically being forced through a .303" hole that has a 3/32" wide groove on each side that is .310-.316" deep.
http://www.mcace.com/adapters.htm
If it made guns blow up, I somehow doubt he would still be selling them.
The other thing I would point out is that on 2 groove Enfield barrels, the grooves are small and only account for about 20-25% of the circumfrence that the jacket is being exposed to. Those bullets are basically being forced through a .303" hole that has a 3/32" wide groove on each side that is .310-.316" deep.
It has nothing to do with what devices are available to swag bullets. It has everything to do with knowing what blows up a gun and what does not.
Others have been very cautious to respond to an in-experienced reloader, you might want to consider the same.
There needs to be an understanding or "Why they don't work?" before "how do I make them work?" The topic of Slugging a barrel would be a better comment in this instance, along with an understanding of what is safe and what is not.
Your eyes and hands are worth more than pennies saved
I understand that scientific and financial interest of your scheme but why risk a catastrophic failure doing something that no reloading manual would recommend?
A damage rifle can easily be replaced but no an eye or an hand.
Play it safe and don't do dangerous experiment to save pennies.
Alex
I understand that scientific and financial interest of your scheme but why risk a catastrophic failure doing something that no reloading manual would recommend?
A damage rifle can easily be replaced but no an eye or an hand.
Play it safe and don't do dangerous experiment to save pennies.
Alex
Ok...
I happen to have one of those 303 barrels and have slugged it. The land diameter is 0.303", the grove diameter is 0.316". The groves measure 0.098" high. It's hard to see those features on the slug in a photo, so here is what it looks like drawn out in CAD:
This gives you a cross-sectional bore area of 0.0734". The default cross sectional-bore area in Quickload for a .308 barrel is 0.0736". So, my Enfield barrel is tighter than a typical 308 barrel (and likely rougher). The .303 British cartridge has a capacity of about 56 gr. H2O, the same as the 308 Win.
SAAMI pressures:
.303 British -> 49,000 psi
.308 Winchester -> 62,000 psi
The tightness of the 2 groove barrel along with the relative weakness of the Enfield action is know about and considered in load data for 303 British. Using it doesn't blow up the Enfield. Using .308 Win data for the same weight of bullet in it likely would. Logically, would using the .303 British loading data for that bullet in a larger .308 barrel, in a case that has the same capacity, produce a higher pressure than it does in the 2 groove .303 barrel? It shouldn't if the other clearances are adequate. Where there could be big problems is if the larger bullet diameter creates a situation where the neck is too tight to release the bullet (same danger as a tight neck chamber).
The reason those adapters don't blow up guns is because 7.63x39 is only rated for 45,000 psi. and a lot of the bores on those com-bloc rifles were just as tight as this Enfield when they were new (those countries weren't know for holding tight tolerances). It's considered in the SAMII spec. for the cartridge. Which is why firing the rounds in those adapters doesn't produce anything close to 308 max. pressures.
Yes, it's advanced stuff, and no a beginner shouldn't be attempting it. Is it any more dangerous that wildcatting? No, it isn't, and many aspects of that also violate the warning section of your loading manual. Saying that it will automatically blow up a gun is false, it's akin to raising warning flags when someone asks about blowing out the shoulder of a case, which is also usually what happens when you explain the process of creating an Ackley case to some who "has reloaded for 40 year", but has never done anything outside of following the recipes in his manuals. "Good God! You're firing a cartridge in a chamber that doesn't match it, everyone knows that'll blow up your gun!".
Doing something like this when you don't fully understand it IS dumb, but so is waiving your hands in panic mode when also don't really understand it either. I'm not going to tell someone to go out and do this, nor would I tell them to go ahead and wildcat a completely new cartridge or build their own 50 BMG from scratch. People have done these things and I'm not going to start preaching to them from the intro section of a reloading manual if they insist on doing them. They ultimately assume the the risks. And the risks are much higher when you start playing with an over-sized bullet, just as they are when you start creating loads for a completely new cartridge or build a big bore rifle from scratch. Hopefully, the person has the good sense to run the initial tests in an isolated area, hiding behind cover and pulling the trigger with long piece of string (with the understanding that they may lose the rifle). If they don't, they're a moron.
P.O.Ackley did some experiments with various oversize bullets being driven down smaller bores. He commented that in most cases, the bullet simply was resized and passed through the bore without incident.
I believe he even drove a 308 bullet through a Japanese 6.5 by opening the throat so the larger bullet could be chambered and fired.
Didn't take the rifle apart.
I'm not suggesting you should try this, only offering some objectivity to the thought that even a slightly oversize bullet will immediately blow up a rifle.
Many, Many years ago, I inadvertently fired some 150 Hornady .312 diameter bullets through a M17 30-06 without any problems whatsoever. They even shot quite well.
The issue that might arise is the throat of that newer Remington.
If it is too tight with the .312 bullet seated, pressures will rise significantly upon firing it because it will not readily release the bullet.
Better to be safe than sorry. Eagleye.
I believe he even drove a 308 bullet through a Japanese 6.5 by opening the throat so the larger bullet could be chambered and fired.
Didn't take the rifle apart.
I'm not suggesting you should try this, only offering some objectivity to the thought that even a slightly oversize bullet will immediately blow up a rifle.
Many, Many years ago, I inadvertently fired some 150 Hornady .312 diameter bullets through a M17 30-06 without any problems whatsoever. They even shot quite well.
The issue that might arise is the throat of that newer Remington.
If it is too tight with the .312 bullet seated, pressures will rise significantly upon firing it because it will not readily release the bullet.
Better to be safe than sorry. Eagleye.
"...can I reload these rounds into a .308..." No. Too big.
"...isn't .303 British actually..." Bullet diameter is nominally .311". Lee-Enfield barrels can vary between .311" and .315" though.
"...adapters available to..." A lot of American made 7.62 x 39 ammo uses a .308" bullet. Milsurp does not.
"...isn't .303 British actually..." Bullet diameter is nominally .311". Lee-Enfield barrels can vary between .311" and .315" though.
"...adapters available to..." A lot of American made 7.62 x 39 ammo uses a .308" bullet. Milsurp does not.
It is great talking about Ackley's experiments, but remember that he was using lead core bullets, while most military 7.62x39 are using steel core. The steel core does not compress!!! like lead will.
Should work fine in .303 British rifles, but more of a risk in .308 rifles. I know that the Ruger mini 30 used a .308 barrel, so apparently it is OK, but I would not try it in one of my .308 bore barrels.
Compare apples to apples.
Should work fine in .303 British rifles, but more of a risk in .308 rifles. I know that the Ruger mini 30 used a .308 barrel, so apparently it is OK, but I would not try it in one of my .308 bore barrels.
Compare apples to apples.
wow thanks guys for the replies i certainly will not be reloading any bullets that are bigger than .310 and even then i still probably won't. i will just stick to stuff that i can buy at cabelas, that should be safe enough. i have measured the hornady bullets at .309" so i will keep to that standard for reloading.
