Reloading .223

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Corey3

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Hey guys, I just got into reloading due to the extreme prices of ammunition in Canada, as well as I like the idea of reloading as a hobby to develop accurate ammunition for my 1911, Beretta 92, and AR-15. I bought a Lee Classic Turret Press, along with all the appropriate hardware. The turret press is easy to use and seems very strong for the money. I have the safety prime, and it works well.

Right now I am reloading .223 for the AR, using RCBS SB resizing and seating dies, along with a Lee Rifle Charging Die and a Lee Factory Crimp die. Right now I have the autoindex off so I can size and deprime in one step, then check the case length and trim if necessary, I also deburr the inside and outside of the cases if I trim them. I am using Winchester Small Rifle Primers, and 20 grains of Hodgdon H4198 powder behind 55gr FMJBT bullets. I have FC, LC, Winchester, S&B, and R-P Brass. I was wondering if you had any tips for me in regards to my reloading process.

So far I have loaded 5 rounds. The brass has been cleaned by soaking it in vinegar and boiling water for 40 minutes, hot soapy water for another 40, then rinsed and left to dry for a day. I found this method on another website, it comes out nice and clean. I am using the double disk kit and the .88 and .66 disks for 1.54ccs of powder. I have been checking the weight of every charge, by triggering the pro autodisk with the primed case, and then dumping it out onto my electric powder scale. The charges are between 20 and 20.2 grains. I then seat the bullet by trying to get it nice and straight in the case mouth, then seat it to an OAL of 2.250. In the next step I have the crimp die set to 1/2 turn, then the cartridge is complete.

I plan on increasing the load by .2 grains in 5 round increments, up to 21 grains. The max in the Lee reloading manual is 22 grains of H4198, does anyone else use this powder and have a good setup? I have many types of powder available at the range, from IMR, Alliant, Hodgdon, etc. Thanks for any tips you might have, sorry about my huge post. :D
 
I find with the FMJ 55gr bullet...24.5 gr IMR3031 powder seems to be to my rifles liking. Each gun will be a bit different in what mix it will shoot the best. I only use one powder and have developed loads for all my reloading for .223, 30-30,38-55, 32Spec and 25-20,so I use it soley.
 
I think you're putting too much effort into brass cleaning, a wipe with a damp rag is probably enough, but whatever floats your boat.

Military brass usually has thicker walls and thus less volume than commercial, so you'll probably hit max pressure sooner. Something to keep in mind when you're loading your LC brass.
 
As dda already said, military brass is usually thicker , resulting in less case volume.
Since you already have an electronic scale it wouldn't be a bad idea to weigh all of your brass , and keep it sorted in batches that are very close in weight.That way, when you are charging them, the pressures/velocities should remain more consistent, and should produce more accurate results.
Again the heavier (thicker) brass will likely reach max pressure with a lighter charge than the thinner cases.
Scott
 
I also think that you might be putting a bit too much time into brass cleaning, I would only go to such lengths with range brass. I'll pick up my brass at the end of the day and they usually look nearly as good as when I loaded them into my rifle. A quick ride in the tumbler (don't use crushed corn cob for .223, its very hard to get out of the neck, crushed walnut makes life easier) and they're ready to load. If you use dryer sheets in your clothes dryer throw an old one of those into the tumbler, it'll help pick up dust from the media and brass.

If you don't have a case tumbler it would make a good investment, but to each there own, if you find your method works for you then have at 'er.

Heres a thread about using the cheapo Winchester FMJs, some good suggestions on powders and charges to get the best results.
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=234385&highlight=winchester+FMJ+results
 
Choose one type of brass and get rid of all the others. You can sort the cases by weight if you want but that is a lot of work and a real PIA to keep them separated.

I suggest you not use mil brass. The primer pockets will be crimped which is a huge PIA to get rid of. Sure it can be done but it is a PIA when you don't really need it.

Either buy a tumbler or just don't bother cleaning your brass. Shiny clean brass is not a requirement and you will spend a fortune not to mention a ton of time cleaning the way you currently are doing it.

If you want to trim brass, I suggest getting a universal decapping die. Just don't tumble brass after the primers have been removed or the media gets stuck in the flash holes and primer pockets.
 
Those 5 rounds were to set up the press, checking all the dies and such. I notice that my brass is already fairly clean, only the necks are usually dirty. Thanks for the replies. :D
 
I clean my brass after every use... using a tumbler... you might want to test the 5 rounds in the chamber of your Ar-15 to make sure they fit before making any more. Open the bolt and drop the ammo in to the gun if it goes where its supposed to it ok... if it get stuck you need to find out why. Make sure the primers are seated properly if your going to let the bolt close on the round hard as my ar leaves a small indent on the primer once chambered you don't want a round going off in your house because your testing the fit and the primer is not seated properly and sitting up to high
 
what do you expect?

Your first concern is what do you expect ??
You say your loading for an AR , is this a heavily customized AR with heavy barrell, match trigger, huge scope type deal or an old off the shelf AR with an A2 set up and iron sites?

Your probably wasting alot of good range time messing with brass too much.
If your looking for precise pin point, thumb tack crushing accuracy I'd assume you've already bought the appropiate parts to make the gun shoot.

Get a brand of brass you've heard good things about or that your comfortable with and keep only 1 type of it... i.e. all remington, all hornady,,, all federal etc. ( i use hornady)
Two of my better powders as results go are Hodgdons H335 and Accurate 2230. Ask guys (AR guys) around your area/range what they,re happy with.

The first AR I worked up a load for had a 1-9 tw. shillen barrell and liked 68 gr. hornady boat tails. First set of loads where with H335, 10 at 20.1 10 at 21.1, 10 @ 22.1 etc. to the last ten at 25.1.
(warning, 25.1 started popping primers out back or blowing holes in them, too hot !!)

Finally setteled on 21.2 gr of H335, manages on one of my better days to hit 3 thumbtacks (push pins) in a row at 100 M.

I usually don't crimp the rounds, I have with the heavier bullets if I plan to travel alot or risk bumping the ammo boxes a fair bit. Have had a few fall out and make a mess but I squeeze em enough now to "just" hold em in.

Try and work out a load that runs around 2850-2900 fps. that usually works ok for me.

M.
 
Ice-Pick said:
I usually don't crimp the rounds, I have with the heavier bullets if I plan to travel alot or risk bumping the ammo boxes a fair bit. Have had a few fall out and make a mess but I squeeze em enough now to "just" hold em in.
M.
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Lack of crimp could lead to the bullet being forced back into the cartridge on feed, giving massive pressure spike and a possible KB. Unless you're handfeeding them, any reload for a semi-auto should be crimped. Doesn't help accuracy maybe, but it is a safety issue.

On bolts I'd agree with you, not semi's though.

Cheers,
DT
 
dangertree said:
Lack of crimp could lead to the bullet being forced back into the cartridge on feed, giving massive pressure spike and a possible KB. Unless you're handfeeding them, any reload for a semi-auto should be crimped. Doesn't help accuracy maybe, but it is a safety issue.

On bolts I'd agree with you, not semi's though.

Cheers,
DT
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I think he forgot to mention he was hand feeding the non crimped rounds! Good thing to mention Dangertree! There are many members on here, that are new to reloading, and this could have been trouble for someone. :eek:
 
I'll take the upper off of my rifle and check my reloads against factory ammo to see if they'll fit the chamber. I'm using small base dies, so I don't forsee any issues in that regard. The rifle is a 16" A3 bought from Dangertree. :D
 
Corey3 said:
I'll take the upper off of my rifle and check my reloads against factory ammo to see if they'll fit the chamber. I'm using small base dies, so I don't forsee any issues in that regard. The rifle is a 16" A3 bought from Dangertree. :D
Click to expand...

Well...how did yah make out?! I can't take it anymore!:D
 
I agree with the others... unless you are totally bored and like watching stuff boil, just tumble your brass once, check and trim occasionally and shoot it. This is of course if you have a tumbler.

Other than that, it seems like you got everthing down pat. Don't use your powder but have had good results with Varget and H4895. Just keep increasing until your gunrested rifle pulls off the best groups and that would be your load for your rifle.

Then reload some more and have a blast shooting them. :)
 
Corey3 said:
Right now I am reloading .223 for the AR, using RCBS SB resizing and seating dies, along with a Lee Rifle Charging Die and a Lee Factory Crimp die. Right now I have the autoindex off so I can size and deprime in one step, then check the case length and trim if necessary, I also deburr the inside and outside of the cases if I trim them. I am using Winchester Small Rifle Primers, and 20 grains of Hodgdon H4198 powder behind 55gr FMJBT bullets. I have FC, LC, Winchester, S&B, and R-P Brass.
Click to expand...

For starters, you can't go wrong loading all of that brass and running with it.
It doesn't sound like you are loading competition grade ammo, so go for it. The differences between all of the brass with your light load is marginal at best, and I seriously doubt you'll see pressure signs or changes on paper.
Is you get into it, I would recommend picking one manufacturer's brass, and that would be Winchester.

Corey3 said:
So far I have loaded 5 rounds. The brass has been cleaned by soaking it in vinegar and boiling water for 40 minutes, hot soapy water for another 40, then rinsed and left to dry for a day. I found this method on another website, it comes out nice and clean. I am using the double disk kit and the .88 and .66 disks for 1.54ccs of powder. I have been checking the weight of every charge, by triggering the pro autodisk with the primed case, and then dumping it out onto my electric powder scale. The charges are between 20 and 20.2 grains.
Click to expand...

Get a tumbler (bigger the better), a 50lb bag of crushed walnut from a sandblasting supply company, and some media treatment (lyman or others).
I would recommend prepping brass before you even start a loading session.
My brass prep:
1) tumble brass and clean it.
2) Full length size and de-cap.
3) Tumble off the sizing lube.
4) Trim and chamfer.

All of my brass goes into tupperware bins from stage to stage (I'll do a couple of thousand pieces at a time). I also keep my brass very clean to polished, which isn't necessary, but is no extra effort aside from leaving the tumbler going longer. I trim after every firing which may or may not be necessary, but you never know when an errant piece not in your lot gets mixed in with the bunch. I run and highly recommend a Giraud trimmer. If you load just as little as a 1000 rounds a year, this thing is worth it.




Corey3 said:
I then seat the bullet by trying to get it nice and straight in the case mouth, then seat it to an OAL of 2.250. In the next step I have the crimp die set to 1/2 turn, then the cartridge is complete.
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You really don't need to be anal about the alignnment of the bullet, as long as it isn't going to go in sideways, as the die corrects the alignment anyhow.
If you see your powder measure is throwing to .2 grains variation, you could just throw them. I call B/S on guys that say they see a difference in .1 of a grain in their groups :rolleyes:.
I have seen up to .5 grains difference in practice loads (load is 25.5 grains) that have shown no appreciatable difference on paper up to 300m.
I crimp everything, even match bullets and have seen no degridation in accuracy. In fact have seen more consistant velocities, and better down range consistancy in bullet drop and dope at longer ranges.

Corey3 said:
I plan on increasing the load by .2 grains in 5 round increments, up to 21 grains. The max in the Lee reloading manual is 22 grains of H4198, does anyone else use this powder and have a good setup? I have many types of powder available at the range, from IMR, Alliant, Hodgdon, etc. Thanks for any tips you might have, sorry about my huge post. :D
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.2 grains is SFA, and imho a complete waste of time.
I load to .5 grains difference, and if a load turns out to be 25.3 grains, it's due to where the powder measure finds the 'sweet spot'.
As to powders, I'm partial to Hodgon's 'extreme' range, as they perform consistantly at differing temperatures.
 
Welcome to a most wonderful part of the shooting hobby and forget about any ideas of saving money...

But you will shoot 3 times as much :)

Pick one headstamp of brass and store the rest. I like Win the best. Have used Fed, Rem with excellent results too. You want to try and keep all brass in batches so you can track number of firings and an eye on wear/splits, etc.

Get a tumbler. I like to clean my brass especially once they hit dirt. Water, dirt, and carbon are good things to remove. I don't care about shiney but clean is good. Walnut and some brass polish for 30mins - good to go.

This is most important step in maximizing accuracy, function AND safety in a gas feeder. You want your sized case to be a nice fit in the chamber without being too small or too big. Open up the rifle and take a factory cartridge and drop it into the barrel. Where does it sit?

Ideally, it should fall into the chamber without resistance and headspace with the base of the case just into the chamber. Extractor groove 100% exposed. Don't bother with a headspace guage. Use the chamber as it will likely be different then the guage anyways.

Now size your brass and see if it falls into the chamber the same way. With your finger tip, can you wobble the case while in the chamber? If so, you are sizing the base of the case too much. There should be zero movement.

Many times, a military chamber is cut oversized so using a SB die might be overkill and very hard on your cases - lots of expansion and sizing which leads to early case separation.

You may find a reg FL sizing die is all you need or even a Redding Body die just enough to push back the shoulder for a perfect fit.

The better the fit, the better the chance of accuracy.

For primers CCI 450 gets my nod as they have the hardest cup next to milspec primers. This should get rid of the risk of slam fires. Ensure the primers are seated just below the case head. AR's have plenty of firing pin length so seating your primers a bit deep will not hurt.

Sounds like you plan on making ammo in bulk and the best powders to do this are ball or very small extruded powders. For general plinking, H335, WCC842 (whatever the bulk stuff at Higginson's is) and similar ball powders flow through measures superbly. They are dirtier and need tweaking as temp changes but cheap and easy to load.

For an extruded, I prefer Benchmark as it has the smallest grain length in this burn range. H4198 is pretty long and can hang up causing powder weights to vary. Now if you weigh all your charges, whatever floats your boat.

If you use normal dies, the neck tension is usually enough so that crimping is not necessay. Again, test in your rifle by making up dummy rds and slam them home. Measure before and after to see if there is any setback.

My test is chambering each case 5 times from the mag and see if there is no bullet movement, I consider the neck tension sufficient for range use.

Work up your loads in .2 tenth increments. In such a small case, it matters. For my LR precision loads, I tested in .1gr increments and weigh all my charges to the same weight. You may not see these gains in your AR but every little bit helps and semi's can be very fussy about load amounts.

If you use a ball powder and find that the rifle shoots best in a very narrow weight range, you will need to adj powder charges with varying temps.

This should give you a good start at making some excellent ammo. Once you get the parameters dialed in, a progressive can be employed to really ramp up the love.

Enjoy shooting ALOT more...

Jerry
 
mysticplayer said:
If you use normal dies, the neck tension is usually enough so that crimping is not necessay. Again, test in your rifle by making up dummy rds and slam them home. Measure before and after to see if there is any setback.

My test is chambering each case 5 times from the mag and see if there is no bullet movement, I consider the neck tension sufficient for range use.
Click to expand...

A better test would be to push the tip of the round as hard as you can into the side of your loading bench, and measure any changes in length. While Jerry's test guages if there is bullet setback from properly loading ammo, it does nothing for the occasional round that nose dives into the feed ramps...Bottom line, there is no good excuse not to crimp for an AR.

mysticplayer said:
Work up your loads in .2 tenth increments. In such a small case, it matters.
Click to expand...
:bsFlag:
In an AR-15 it simply doesn't matter.

Don't believe me though - go test a couple of ten thousand rounds for yourself.;)
 
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