Reloading 45/70.... have questions

ditchpickle

ditchpickle

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This is my first attempt at reloading. I'm using a Lee anniversary kit, and Lee dies. This is for a Marlin guide gun. The load I decided on is one of the starting loads out of the Hodgdons online reloading guide. It's a 350gr. Hornady JRN, with 56.5gr. of IMR 3031.


Question #1

This cartridge is my own experment, no powder or primer, to see what would happen with the COL. In this picture it is at its maximum COL. The mouth of the casing line up with a groove in the bullet, leaving a little pocket. Can I safely push the bullet in a little further to eliminate this, or do I just have to live with it. It still chambers and cycles fine, but does not seem right.

cartqn5.jpg



Question #2

I filled some primed casings with powder, to see how my crappy little scale worked, and they seem awful full, like there would not even be room to seat the bullet fully. Do they look OK? it's a perfect 56.5gr. on my scale, I just want to be sure.

10cartjm0.jpg



Question #3

Do I need to crimp these cartridges, for use in my lever gun? I dont really understand how to do that:confused:

I figure its easier to ask you guys, than blow myself, or my gun up.;)

Thanks
dave
 
#1- I dont think you have your die set correctly. It has a built in crimp. Make sure you keep the correct OAL.

#2- Looks right to me as far as amount of powder, but I wont say 100% unless I weighed it on my scale. 56.5g of 3031 is a compressed load.

#3- I would buy a Lee factory crimp die and follow the instructions, they are cheap.
 
After chatting with Ditchpickle I had a quick look at one of my reloading manuals. For a 350g JSP my Lyman manual says that 57g of 3031 is a max load for a Ruger #1 & #3. I know we can push the limits as most of us have(no need to go there), but 56.5g of 3031 and a 350g bullet seems a little high for a starting point on a Marlin lever gun.

I would like to hear some other opinions on the subject, anyone have any loads to share with that powder bullet combo?

:popCorn:
 
56.1 is max in my new hornady book with that bullet, you should start lower with any powder and work up, my book says 45.2 min , dont start with a max load, back off and up , you can hurt yourself,, wade
 
wade said:
56.1 is max in my new hornady book with that bullet, you should start lower with any powder and work up, my book says 45.2 min , dont start with a max load, back off and up , you can hurt yourself,, wade
Click to expand...

Hodgdon Lists 56.5g of 3031 as a starting load with a modern lever action rifle and 60g as a full load using 3031. Seems f**ked to me, but I have not spent much time on the topic at hand......

I have all ready explained to Ditchpickle the seriousness of the issues at hand and he understands them.

Lets hear some loads using this powder and bullet combo :cool:
 
We all know that the 45-70 load data, can be *questionable* at times for modern rifles. I'm certainly not going to post my loads, as they may be outside of some safety-guru's 1886 book value.

The best advice I can give to ditchpickle is to query Mr. MT Chambers himself. He's got a good grasp of "modern" loads for the 45-70.
 
You can set your die up to crimp at the same time as your seat bullet or do it in two steps, seat bullet to correct length, then remove seating stem, run case to top of ram stroke, screw die down until you feel resistance, turn die in another 1/2 turn and you should be crimping. You're load is top end for Lever guns and you may want to work up to that, i don't use bullets as light as those on game so i can't recommend any loads, until bullet weight goes over 400grs.
 
just wondering if those lee anniversey presses are good or not looking to start reloading don't have alot of money and this press kit seems reasonably priced
 
The amount of powder looks right for 3031,but try to upgrade your scale.My friend bought one and it did not work right and was hard to read.Poor design.He took it back and bought a cheap hornady scale that worked way better.Reloading should be fun,but that scale makes things a pain.The rcbs scales work well but cost a bit more.Any slight movement or bump throws the vernier scale all out of whack,and the ball bearing is just cheezy.
 
I would also recommend getting the lee factory crimp die to crimp in a seperate operation,they are cheap and they do work very well and are easy to adjust.
 
I might also suggest using staring loads or loads for the trapdoor models.A much bigger safety margin than starting with 56.5 grains,and easier on the shoulder as well.
 
That looks like a VERY heavy, High Pressure load to me! I did not look up the online data that you refer to, but I did look in my various manuals. All manuals make a distinction between strong and weak action 45-70 rifles, and list loads accordingly. The Marlin is in the middle, not a weak trapdoor but not a Ruger #1 either. MAX Loads I have for IMR 3031 in the Marlin are as follows:
Lyman # 47: 48 gr. - 400 gr. bullet 50 gr. - 300 gr. bullet
Barnes # 2: 50 gr. - 400 gr. bullet 52 gr. - 300 gr. bullet
Speer # 12: 53 gr. - 400 gr. bullet

Hogdon manual is different, listing is not specific to Marlin
Hogdon# 26: 55 gr. - 350 gr. bullet (High pressure load)

an old 1996 IMR book also shows 51.5 gr. 3031 with the 405 gr. bullet.

Any way you look at it, your load of 56.5 grains / 350 gr. is definitely NOT 10% under max as a starting load shoud be. I would advise you to pull those bullets and start over with a lower charge. BTW, the cases look like I would expect with that much 3031, I just loaded some last week, but I find recoil in my Marlin objectionable after about 45 gr. with a 400 grain. If you're deer / black bear hunting with yours, why not try a milder load? you'll likely enjoy it more and increase your safety margin, especially as a beginner reloader. Even if your goal is moose, practise with milder loads will pay dividends, just remember to re-sight the rifle for the heavy loads. good luck!
 
There is some good advice being shared here about loading the Marlin lever gun.I would definitely start lower for sure and crimp the bullets as suggested.:)
I shoot 40 grains of IMR 4198 under a 420 grain GC cast bullet that chronies close to 1700 fps, that will knock down what ever you point it at without hurting too bad on both ends.:eek: I have tried the fullhouse loads before and the accuracy is no better and I doubt it will kill any game faster.:cheers:
 
The factory bullet seat & crimp die works just fine for the old 45-70.
Keep all brass trimmed the same.
Run an unloaded piece of brass up in the die & screw the die down till it just touches the brass.
Now run a prepped case up in the die with bullet & adjust till bullet is just seated in the initial edge of the crimping goove, then turn die down 1/2 turn & you should be good to go.
You can turn the die in or out to adjust your crimp & turn the bullet seater adjustment in or out to adjust seating depth when crimped.
 
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