Reloading arbour press for Wilson seater die - or not?

bigHUN

bigHUN

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Tinkering between these two, but not both, if I can figure around:
- to get a reloading arbour press from K&M or 21st Century?
or
- get a pressure/load cell with display from ali and I can use my micro mill as arbour press?

My focus is on getting consistency as much possible.

Anybody can chime in with - load pressure sensors/cells experience and tips?
 
I got the K&M recently, with the Wilson inline, really pleased with both. I was expecting the shorter lever would mean a harder press, but not at all. Another deciding factor was the portability. It's coming to the range Friday for seating depth tests.
Only draw back with the Wilson die is the standard stem is not the one you need for VLD bullets. So I had to buy a second stem.
But the die is really consistent. Much more so than my Forster Micro-meter seating die.
 
I got the other Wilson die stem for tangent ogive, but I think it is irrelevant if we use consistently a same shape bullet nose and measuring, and not mixing.
 
bigHUN said:
Tinkering between these two, but not both, if I can figure around:
- to get a reloading arbour press from K&M or 21st Century?
or
- get a pressure/load cell with display from ali and I can use my micro mill as arbour press?

My focus is on getting consistency as much possible.

Anybody can chime in with - load pressure sensors/cells experience and tips?
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I think the gauges are gimmicky and unnecessary, but I know thers that swear by them. I really like an arbour press for target loads. You get a really nice "feel" when seating bullets.
 
I have found a digital "pressure force meter - kit" at ali, for sub $100 CAD shipped.
I didn't purchased no one yet, still tinkering to go with the K+M (with longer arm) or just use my drill press potentially with a force meter, or eventually a combination.
 
cosmic said:
I dont understand what you are trying to achieve?
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in best case scenario ... save $200 on a press and have consistency read on digital display ...

A friend machineshop is busy in a next month or so, I would wanna extend these 7/8" rods for extra 1+ inch travel and I can dual purpose for inline seating die as well?

20241217_194904.jpg
 
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You want to measure position, force is not particularly relevant. The seating die and press are set up to come to a hard stop at the desired COAL. Before you get a bad case of "analysis paralysis" I suggest you either read a manual, or find a local mentor, if your command of the english language is limited.
BTW - The force required to seat a bullet is a fraction of that to size a case. The seating die has the most influence on successful bullet seating, for both COAL repeatability and bullet runout. A cheap Lee press can be easily used for this purpose. On the other hand, sizing the case requires more attention to press performance, along with sizing technique, brass quality etc. Many experienced reloaders have more than one press - one for sizing and one for seating - very convenient.
 
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cosmic said:
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708fan said:
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All we are after the most consistent bullets in a batch... and all we know what is a cost, mainly in all the tools we use.
Pretty much I have all my tools for diy.
I am focusing now on consistent force seating the bullet, either with some precision press or measure it with a press load sensor.
And don't really have much more room on my bench for an extra seating press , I want to go minimalist with a room also with a valet as well.
 
Well - Good luck. As I mentioned in a previous post, managing the parametric uncertainties such that any controlling uncertainty is recognized and addressed is moreso a matter of experience and technique, not just the cost/quantity of equipment as you state. l can assure you that "runout" is often the controlling uncertainty leading to poor performance in attempting to make match grade ammunition, assuming all other parameters such as COAL, bullet/powder type and charge, and seating force(?), have been addressed.
For your benefit, runout is a lack of axial concentricity in the cartridge. This can be due to sizing error in the case, or bullet seating error. Lets get into some analysis:
How do you measure it?
How do you correct it?
 
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It's more that you want to push each bullet to the same stopping point, not to any point requiring consistent resistance. You could easily push past that point and drop the bullet into the case (if the powder charge allows) but you don't want to.

Consistent neck tension is desirable.
 
Yes, thank you all for comments.

Consistent neck tension - between the brass and the bullet....this is my point I just couldn't find it in my dictionary.

My story:
I got these 200 pieces of Lapua brass (100 shot and 100 turned only).
Annealed the shot brass.
I measured the neck wall thickness on almost half of them, and the numbers not entirely to my liking.
With a Wilson neck sizing die I ran through a volume that was shot. Measured the wall thicknesses again and sort them into batches.
Ready to sit the bullets with a Wilson seating die. The press fit is 0.003" but next batch I may make it smaller.

And the neck wall thicknesses varies.
I am not aware of that Wilson have inside mandrels to make the hole uniform. I got a Wilson inside neck reamer but makes the hole larger (cuts off about 0.004"., when I run the neck sizing die, not sure how much of a wall thickness is desirable for a chamber expansion (0.012 vs 0.014).

This where I am spekulating, how to make a uniform friction between brass and bullet - or how to measure the force needed to sit the bullet, and sort in batches.
 
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From my experience, arbor press mainly gives me more convenience if I need to adjust seating depth at the range or at the match to tune the load. The one comes with indicator let you know how much terminal force you are using to seat the bullet.
If you really want to fine tune your load or find the flyer, you may want to get the AMP press, but it is expensive for knowing how much force it applied during the seating process and illustrate in a graph so you can compare with other seated bullets.

But there are many factors affecting seating force, angle of chamfer and length/depth of chamfer is one, the lube you are using is another and neck tension are the top 3 on my list.
 
I understand the concept of measuring the seating force, but it really tells us nothing about the release or the bullet. Having said that, I use a Rock Chucker and if I feel any different in seating I set those aside for fowlers. My procedure is pretty consistent so I don’t usually get too many.
 
The Amp press is expensive.
I am leaning towards the press force meter from aliexpress, and do my data in a spreadsheet manually.
Sort the loaded amo by the statistics numbers and whatever spikes goes in a different batch.
Plenty of time before I start mass reloading only after the winter is gone.
Next several months tinkering only and R&D :)
 
Lead hammer said:
I understand the concept of measuring the seating force, but it really tells us nothing about the release or the bullet. Having said that, I use a Rock Chucker and if I feel any different in seating I set those aside for fowlers. My procedure is pretty consistent so I don’t usually get too many.
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Assume all the brass are processed the same, the seating force reflects the neck tension in a way, at least it quantifies the seating force in a number rather than feel.
 
Lead hammer said:
Yep. It would be nice to see a bullet pull force gauge with different neck tensions applied.
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Yep, I will be working on that over the winter months.
I got all the brass 100+100 pieces I don't know nothing about history.
This last summer I shot a 100 reloaded by a friend, I already annealed those and ready for tinkering.
The next 100 were neck turned (also by a friend) ... I will shot those like a drunken soldier only to get them to a point to anneal those as well.
Expecting winter will last long enough to collect all brass and the tools (resizing bushings and reamer) on a pile and I will start playing with a process to make things consistent.
So that is my plan.
 
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