Reloading for 38 S and W

greywolf67nt

greywolf67nt

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Question for those that have more experience reloading than myself.
I have found all the components to reload 38 S&W EXCEPT powder of course.
All the data I can find is for Hodgdon HP-38 or Winchester 231.
I have on hand Titegroup and N320 oh and like 7 lbs of IMR 4227.
Looked at a bunch of data for other loads and Titegroup runs 85% of HP-38 and Win. 231. N320 runs 90%. Nothing comparable for the 4227.
Powder burn rate chart Win. 231 (assuming HP-38 is close or the same as most loads are identical weight) at #29 and N320 #26. Titegroup is up there at #15.
Can I just do the math and carry on or wait until I can actually find one of those 2 powders?
 
Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook #4

38 S&W Loads 150 gr.jpg
 

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Use the proper powder. If you can’t find data for a powder don’t use it. You start experimenting your putting you and bystanders at risk. Lots of data for other powders. Buy the Lyman manual,Hodgdon manual or Lee manual. Unique or 700X can be used. As far as bullet diameter, I use cast sized to 0.358 or 0.359 depending on which is in my sizer. I have four guns in 38 S/W. British Enfield,Webley, Smith and Wesson Victory and an older Iver Johnson. All work well with bullets meant for 38 or 357’s.
 
For really obscure cartridges you may have to create your own data a little like how you mentioned but the 38 S&W shouldn't be too difficult to find published information. Or at least things online that aren't too suspect.
Using your reasoning is a good way to examine data that isn't from the most reputable sources for wether or not it's too out to lunch.

This link has a lot of info and might have some hints for you.
https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/2127369-Large-collection-of-cast-bullet-data
 
Depending wich handgun itt's for, you may have to use a 200 grain bullet. Lots of British or British bound guns were meant to use the 200 grain bullet.

My load is 1.7 grn Red Dot behind a 200 grain cast bullet from Jet Bullets.

My gun is marked .38/200. Britsh for 38 S&W with 200 grain bullet
 
Snider shooter said:
Use the proper powder. If you can’t find data for a powder don’t use it. You start experimenting your putting you and bystanders at risk. Lots of data for other powders.
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We are all entitled to opinions. My opinion is that if everyone was this timid, humanity would still be living in caves.

.38 S&W is a low pressure, low-performance cartridge, and will almost certainly work with any powder burn rate faster than Unique. The 4227 won't work but the other two should. Start with a very modest charge, and work up. Andy has provided data to help you along but even if he hadn't it would have been easy enough to figure something out. The fastest powder in his tables is N310, use the starting charge for that and you can't go wrong.
 
yomomma said:
Depending wich handgun itt's for, you may have to use a 200 grain bullet. Lots of British or British bound guns were meant to use the 200 grain bullet.

My load is 1.7 grn Red Dot behind a 200 grain cast bullet from Jet Bullets.

My gun is marked .38/200. Britsh for 38 S&W with 200 grain bullet
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We're all assuming it's an Enfield No 2. Is it?

I understand that the Enfield No 2 Mk1 originally used a 200 gr cast bullet and had ".38/200" stamped on the barrel and the sights were calibrated for that bullet. In about 1937 the Brits chnaged to a 174 gr jacketed bullet and the barrel was stamped "38 S&W" and the sights were changed accordingly.

Neither gun "must" use a 200 or 174 gr bullet, although the original sights are bound to be off unless they are changed, or the shooter otherwise compensates.

My Enfield No 2 shot 140 gr bullets well using 1.7 grs of Clays for 635 fps and 1.7 gr of Trail Boss (a full case) for 570 fps.
 
Andy said:
We're all assuming it's an Enfield No 2. Is it?

I understand that the Enfield No 2 Mk1 originally used a 200 gr cast bullet and had ".38/200" stamped on the barrel and the sights were calibrated for that bullet. In about 1937 the Brits chnaged to a 174 gr jacketed bullet and the barrel was stamped "38 S&W" and the sights were changed accordingly.

Neither gun "must" use a 200 or 174 gr bullet, although the original sights are bound to be off unless they are changed, or the shooter otherwise compensates.

My Enfield No 2 shot 140 gr bullets well using 1.7 grs of Clays for 635 fps and 1.7 gr of Trail Boss (a full case) for 570 fps.
Click to expand...

It's actually a S&W, unique in that it is stamped 38/200. But it also has 3 different serial numbers stamped on it.

Sad I will never know the history of it. Was part of a war bring back along with a Luger and Walther
 
jethunter said:
4227 is awful slow for that cartridge.
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Yes. This is a medium bore cartridge with very small capacity (about 11.0 grs of H2O) most of which is consumed by the seated bullet. It is a VERY high Expanion Ratio cartridge that also operates at VERY low pressures (<15K CUP), so all these things together mean that only quick pistol powders can be used.

It has an almost identical case capacity to the common 9mm Luger (9X19), but the 9X19 operates at around 35K CUP. If you look at the published loads for a 145 gr bullet and Win 231, the 38 S&W uses 2.6 grs and the 9X19 uses 3.4. This tells us that even 0.1 grs is a significant increase, so I like to aim for no higher than 10K CUP as a measure of safety.

I loaded the aforementioned loads of 1.7 grs of Clay and 1.7 grs of Trail Boss in the 38 S&W with 127 gr, 140 gr and 195 gr cast bullets - all safe loads.

The 140 gr bullets had a MV of about 625 fps - low, but where I wanted it, suggesting a pressure of perhaps 9-10K CUP. The 195 gr bullets went about 100 fps slower which was no surprise, but so did the 127 gr bullets, which is counter intuitive (shouldn't they go faster?). The explanation is that with that lighter bullet but the same powder payload, the pressure was so low (5K CUP?) that the powder probably provided little more "push" than did the primer.

Quadruple check your loads with the 38 S&W - a double fill of something like Titegroup could disassemble your handgun.
 
I use 2.5 grs of unique with 150gr cast bullet lubed with Alox. Also using a NOE mold that drops bullets .362 diameter and firing them out of a Smith and Wesson revolver.
 
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/b-p-loads-for-the-38-s-w.736923/

Theres some talk on it, seems everyone doing thier own thing while loading BP.

Iam sitting on 600 200gr bullets I need to make a load for. I have alot of "old" bullseye that Iam skeptical to use, but might have to try it the way things are, lots suggest win 231. All my other pistol powders aren't suitable for the cartridge.
 
I just loaded 1000 rounds of 38S&W with Win 231 powder and cast lead 158gr SWC sized .358

Accuracy is excellent and SD/ES very very good.

I loaded 2.3 gr for the old guns and 2.6 for the newer. (625 fps and 700 fps)
 
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