Reloading for 7mm Remington Rolling Block

Blastattack

Blastattack

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I've recently purchased, and am awaiting the arrival of a wonderful Remington 1910 Rolling Block chambered in 7x57mm Mauser. I would like to use this rifle, and it would appear that my best bet is to reload for it. I would like to duplicate the original service round, which was a 175gr bullet at 2200-2300 FPS without going to high on the pressure. I've looked at Hodgdon's website, and they show a starting load using 38.0gr of H100V that only generates 34800 CUP and 2160fps out of a 24" barrel. I will be shooting out of a 30" barrel. Is this starting load considered low enough to be safe, assuming the firearm is in good shape?

Do you have any other suggestions for loads? I am not interested in low velocity cast loads, only jacketed loads.

And for eye candy, the "soon to be mine" rifle in question:

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Been a while since I messed with researching RB but from memory, I would be wary of using anything exceeding BP pressures in that rifle. From the tang roll that I can read & the shape of the bolt face roller handle I suspect that that action is an early military #1 that was converted to 7 mm (maybe even one of the prototypes). These actions have been known to fail with early, somewhat anemic smokeless loads (by our modern standards) & early manufactured 7 mm barrels. some of these guns have fired many rounds in early military trials and held together...but some didn't...and if a gun comes apart in your hand, you don't get a "do over". The being said I myself have an early #1 BP action with a new chrome-molly barrel in 45-70 that I do shoot smokeless in but NEVER anything over 1200 fps.

The best early 7mm actions in the RB configuration (from info in the books from 70's&80's) are from the Lapland countries (& the #5 Remington's) that specifically produced smokeless powder capable actions. Lots of these actions have been "gunsmith customized" with various modern caliber barrels...but myself, I would be very wary of anything other than the lightest loads available.

Just my 2 cents worth.
 
fingers284 said:
Been a while since I messed with researching RB but from memory, I would be wary of using anything exceeding BP pressures in that rifle. From the tang roll that I can read & the shape of the bolt face roller handle I suspect that that action is an early military #1 that was converted to 7 mm (maybe even one of the prototypes). These actions have been known to fail with early, somewhat anemic smokeless loads (by our modern standards) & early manufactured 7 mm barrels. some of these guns have fired many rounds in early military trials and held together...but some didn't...and if a gun comes apart in your hand, you don't get a "do over". The being said I myself have an early #1 BP action with a new chrome-molly barrel in 45-70 that I do shoot smokeless in but NEVER anything over 1200 fps.

The best early 7mm actions in the RB configuration (from info in the books from 70's&80's) are from the Lapland countries (& the #5 Remington's) that specifically produced smokeless powder capable actions. Lots of these actions have been "gunsmith customized" with various modern caliber barrels...but myself, I would be very wary of anything other than the lightest loads available.

Just my 2 cents worth.
Click to expand...

I can assure you it is not a #1. It is certainly a 1910/#5 made sometime after 1912, as the tang reads both Remington and UMC. It is a smokeless action.
 
Blastattack said:
I can assure you it is not a #1. It is certainly a 1910/#5 made sometime after 1912, as the tang reads both Remington and UMC. It is a smokeless action.
Click to expand...

I had one of those.

An old friend, picked one up from Bannerman's back when he was a youngster. He left it to me as I was the only one that appreciated it, other than him. It later went to his Grandson, who appreciated it for what it was as well as it came from his Grandfather.

The rifle was Mexican surplus

That rifle was SAFE with factory 7x57. It was quite accurate but not amazingly so. It also had a tight twist bore and shot heavier bullets better than light.

My only complaint with the rifle was its very generous chamber.

Back in the day, some pundits felt the cartridges made for those rifles were a special lot. I don't believe that at all. I think the chambers were purposely made large because of the conditions the rifles/ammunition would endure.

In my rifle, split necks weren't uncommon, even on new commercial brass.

Once the cartridge was fired in the Rolling Block, It had to be full length resized to be chambered in the Mexican Mausers I had in 7x57.
 
I also had one in 7X57 years ago, and it was a well made, good looking rifle.
As I remember it was extremely long throated, although it didn't appear eroded, and even seating out the various bullets I tried to maximum possible loaded length still left them well clear of the lands.
I sold it to a guy who mainly wanted it for the smaller diameter firing pin 1910 action to use in a BPCR build.
 
Personally, I would use data for the 7x57R. Mostly used in hinged action rifles and combo guns. Consider this data as Max loads.

7X57R
Warning!#Notes:#Handloader Issue 193
Be Alert: Publisher cannot be responsible for errors in published load data.

Wt. Bullet Manufacturer Powder Charge Velocity (FPS) Favorite?

139 Hornady Spire Point boat-tail IMR IMR-4064 41 2,471
Remarks:#primer: CCI BR; group (inches): 0.44; case: RWS Boxer-primed
139 Hornady Spire Point boat-tail IMR IMR-4320 41 2,549
Remarks:#primer: CCI BR; group (inches): 0.46; case: RWS Boxer-primed
139 Hornady Spire Point boat-tail IMR IMR-4350 45 2,541
Remarks:#primer: CCI BR; group (inches): 0.37; case: RWS Boxer-primed
140 Nosler spitzer boat-tail IMR IMR-4064 41 2,459
Remarks:#primer: RWS-5620; group (inches): 0.42; case: RWS Berdan-primed
140 Nosler spitzer boat-tail IMR IMR-4320 41 2,571
Remarks:#primer: RWS-5620; group (inches): 0.57; case: RWS Berdan-primed
140 Nosler spitzer boat-tail IMR IMR-4350 45 2,517
Remarks:#primer: RWS-5620; group (inches): 1.08; case: RWS Berdan-primed
154 Hornady Spire Point IMR IMR-4064 41.6 2,439
Remarks:#primer: CCI BR; group (inches): 0.40; case: RWS Boxer-primed
154 Hornady Spire Point IMR IMR-4320 41.9 2,334
Remarks:#primer: CCI BR; group (inches): 0.68; case: RWS Boxer-primed
154 Hornady Spire Point IMR IMR-4350 46.1 2,517
Remarks:#primer: CCI BR; group (inches): 0.44; case: RWS Boxer-primed
154 Hornady Spire Point IMR IMR-4064 41.6 2,483
Remarks:#primer: RWS-5620; group (inches): 0.70; case: RWS Berdan-primed
154 Hornady Spire Point IMR IMR-4320 41.9 2,459
Remarks:#primer: RWS-5620; group (inches): 0.72; case: RWS Berdan-primed
154 Hornady Spire Point IMR IMR-4350 46.1 2,536
Remarks:#primer: RWS-5620; group (inches): 0.68; case: RWS Berdan-primed
160 Sierra spitzer boat-tail IMR IMR-4064 42 2,517
Remarks:#primer: CCI BR; group (inches): 0.89; case: RWS Boxer-primed
160 Sierra spitzer boat-tail IMR IMR-4320 43 2,586
Remarks:#primer: CCI BR; group (inches): 0.26; case: RWS Boxer-primed
160 Sierra spitzer boat-tail Hodgdon H-4350 46 2,489
Remarks:#primer: CCI BR; group (inches): 0.40; case: RWS Boxer-primed
160 Sierra spitzer boat-tail IMR IMR-4064 40 2,371
Remarks:#primer: RWS-5620; group (inches): 1.22; case: RWS Berdan-primed
160 Sierra spitzer boat-tail IMR IMR-4320 41 2,471
Remarks:#primer: RWS 5620; group (inches): 1.05; case: RWS Berdan-primed
160 Sierra spitzer boat-tail IMR IMR-4350 44 2,345
Remarks:#primer: RWS-5620; group (inches): 0.81; case: RWS Berdan-primed
175 Hornady Spire Point IMR IMR-4064 39 2,259
Remarks:#primer: CCI BR; group (inches): 0.54; case: RWS Boxer-primed
175 Hornady Spire Point IMR IMR-4320 40 2,386
Remarks:#primer: CCI BR; group (inches): 0.85; case: RWS Boxer-primed
175 Hornady Spire Point Hodgdon H-4350 44 2,310
Remarks:#primer: CCI BR; group (inches): 0.55; case: RWS Boxer-primed
175 Hornady Spire Point IMR IMR-4064 39 2,302
Remarks:#primer: RWS-5620; group (inches): 0.98; case: PS Berdan-primed
175 Hornady Spire Point IMR IMR-4320 40 2,357
Remarks:#primer: RWS-5620; group (inches): 0.88; case: PS Berdan-primed
175 Hornady Spire Point IMR IMR-4350 44 2,343
Remarks:#primer: RWS-5620; group (inches): 0.94; case: PS Berdan-primed

Have shot a friend's Danish 8x58R. Nice.
 
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diopter said:
Personally, I would use data for the 7x57R. Mostly used in hinged action rifles and combo guns. Consider this data as Max loads.

7X57R
Warning!#Notes:#Handloader Issue 193
Be Alert: Publisher cannot be responsible for errors in published load data.

Wt. Bullet Manufacturer Powder Charge Velocity (FPS) Favorite?

139 Hornady Spire Point boat-tail IMR IMR-4064 41 2,471
Remarks:#primer: CCI BR; group (inches): 0.44; case: RWS Boxer-primed
139 Hornady Spire Point boat-tail IMR IMR-4320 41 2,549
Remarks:#primer: CCI BR; group (inches): 0.46; case: RWS Boxer-primed
139 Hornady Spire Point boat-tail IMR IMR-4350 45 2,541
Remarks:#primer: CCI BR; group (inches): 0.37; case: RWS Boxer-primed
140 Nosler spitzer boat-tail IMR IMR-4064 41 2,459
Remarks:#primer: RWS-5620; group (inches): 0.42; case: RWS Berdan-primed
140 Nosler spitzer boat-tail IMR IMR-4320 41 2,571
Remarks:#primer: RWS-5620; group (inches): 0.57; case: RWS Berdan-primed
140 Nosler spitzer boat-tail IMR IMR-4350 45 2,517
Remarks:#primer: RWS-5620; group (inches): 1.08; case: RWS Berdan-primed
154 Hornady Spire Point IMR IMR-4064 41.6 2,439
Remarks:#primer: CCI BR; group (inches): 0.40; case: RWS Boxer-primed
154 Hornady Spire Point IMR IMR-4320 41.9 2,334
Remarks:#primer: CCI BR; group (inches): 0.68; case: RWS Boxer-primed
154 Hornady Spire Point IMR IMR-4350 46.1 2,517
Remarks:#primer: CCI BR; group (inches): 0.44; case: RWS Boxer-primed
154 Hornady Spire Point IMR IMR-4064 41.6 2,483
Remarks:#primer: RWS-5620; group (inches): 0.70; case: RWS Berdan-primed
154 Hornady Spire Point IMR IMR-4320 41.9 2,459
Remarks:#primer: RWS-5620; group (inches): 0.72; case: RWS Berdan-primed
154 Hornady Spire Point IMR IMR-4350 46.1 2,536
Remarks:#primer: RWS-5620; group (inches): 0.68; case: RWS Berdan-primed
160 Sierra spitzer boat-tail IMR IMR-4064 42 2,517
Remarks:#primer: CCI BR; group (inches): 0.89; case: RWS Boxer-primed
160 Sierra spitzer boat-tail IMR IMR-4320 43 2,586
Remarks:#primer: CCI BR; group (inches): 0.26; case: RWS Boxer-primed
160 Sierra spitzer boat-tail Hodgdon H-4350 46 2,489
Remarks:#primer: CCI BR; group (inches): 0.40; case: RWS Boxer-primed
160 Sierra spitzer boat-tail IMR IMR-4064 40 2,371
Remarks:#primer: RWS-5620; group (inches): 1.22; case: RWS Berdan-primed
160 Sierra spitzer boat-tail IMR IMR-4320 41 2,471
Remarks:#primer: RWS 5620; group (inches): 1.05; case: RWS Berdan-primed
160 Sierra spitzer boat-tail IMR IMR-4350 44 2,345
Remarks:#primer: RWS-5620; group (inches): 0.81; case: RWS Berdan-primed
175 Hornady Spire Point IMR IMR-4064 39 2,259
Remarks:#primer: CCI BR; group (inches): 0.54; case: RWS Boxer-primed
175 Hornady Spire Point IMR IMR-4320 40 2,386
Remarks:#primer: CCI BR; group (inches): 0.85; case: RWS Boxer-primed
175 Hornady Spire Point Hodgdon H-4350 44 2,310
Remarks:#primer: CCI BR; group (inches): 0.55; case: RWS Boxer-primed
175 Hornady Spire Point IMR IMR-4064 39 2,302
Remarks:#primer: RWS-5620; group (inches): 0.98; case: PS Berdan-primed
175 Hornady Spire Point IMR IMR-4320 40 2,357
Remarks:#primer: RWS-5620; group (inches): 0.88; case: PS Berdan-primed
175 Hornady Spire Point IMR IMR-4350 44 2,343
Remarks:#primer: RWS-5620; group (inches): 0.94; case: PS Berdan-primed

Have shot a friend's Danish 8x58R. Nice.
Click to expand...

Thank you. That gives me some more numbers and combos to work with.
 
So, I have received my gun and am very happy thus far. I took it out to the range and discovered two major, but solvable, problems. The first problem is that the firing pin protrusion is huge and punched clear through two primers, and nearly through the other two. This is readily solved with either a new and shorter firing pin, or potentially by using the CCI military primers.

The next problem is a little more interesting. While the chamber and barrel (an in fact most fo the rifle) are pristine, the neck diameter is purposefully excessive. I don't know what the purpose is, but its definitely on purpose. Measuring both the chamber and fired cases reveals that the neck diamter is somewhere between .335 and .340, or about .015-.020 bigger than they really should be. I was wondering if anyone has ever bushed the neck on a case for a better fit? Say, chopping off sections of 30-06 neck and pressing them over the 7mm neck to make it larger, and running it though a correspondingly altered sizing die. Kinda like the polar opposite of neck turning.
 
My fired in a Mauser 98 7x57 neck sizes are 0.329±

I suggest trying a thin, even coat of grease or lube on the necks only, just before firing. Let us know if it helps.
 
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I seem to remember there was a change to the dimensions of the 7x57mm cartridge case or its chamber dimensions.

Does anyone have any information on this as I could not find any information.

I believe this took place around 1900 +/- and concerns Remington's Rolling Block rifle.
 
diopter said:
My fired in a Mauser 98 7x57 neck sizes are 0.329±

I suggest trying a thin, even coat of grease or lube on the necks only, just before firing. Let us know if it helps.
Click to expand...

Is that meant to try and take up some of the space and prevent it from over expanding like it currently is?

sail32 said:
I seem to remember there was a change to the dimensions of the 7x57mm cartridge case or its chamber dimensions.

Does anyone have any information on this as I could not find any information.

I believe this took place around 1900 +/- and concerns Remington's Rolling Block rifle.
Click to expand...

Apparently post 1920ish. I can't find an exact number, but it would seem it occurred after Rolling Block production ceased.
 
Measure the thickness without the paper backing when you get it.
Mine is .001" So one wrap is .002" thicker neck.Etc.



Should take fewer wraps than you would think, mathematically speaking.
Suggest you lube the finished neck so adhesive wont stick to chamber.
 
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Well, finished wrapping up 17 factory rounds. I did some firing before this and found another interesting quirk: pierced primers. The firing pin had about .085 of protrusion which punched holes in the primers, and one of the punches actually jammed up the extractor system. I’ve trimmed the pin back to about .060 of protrusion, so hopefully no pierced primers. Necks are wrapped in 4" of 3/8 wide copper tape, which works out to exactly 4 wraps. This is a painstaking process, and I'd love to find something a little easier less fiddly. Bushed necks would be great, and run them through a modified die. Has anyone tried something like that?

My wrapped rounds:
4DF0381D-FE00-46C7-BC5D-8A6552AC8ECE.jpg

Sorry for the upside down. Stupid iPhone likes to do that and I can’t seem to correct it from the phone.
 

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I had similar concern about lowest pressure in an "older" 7x57 - in my case a small ring mauser bolt action - Ludw. Loewe - 1896 - is roll stamped on left side of action. Seems to match up to all key points for an 1893 pattern mauser rifle.

In Lyman 49th, page 193, found lowest pressure loads for 175 grain jacketed - in their case they used Speer Grand Slam Soft Point (GSSP) bullets. Start loads listed for AA-3100, H4831, IMR7828 all below 31,500 CUP. Start load listed velocities from a Mauser 29" barrel given as 1,854 for the AA-3100, and 2,134 fps and 2,107 fps for the other two. Max loads shown get up to 2,400 fps level with 45,000-ish CUP pressures. With Winchester cases, and Winchester WLR primers
 
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