Reloading for PRS Matches

Jerry (mystic prec) made a good note along similar lines a few days ago- annealing is one of the best pro active preparation steps to take. In parallel, neck turning at regular intervals manages brass flow (neck thickness) over time. Finally, good brass equals good results, not only for consistency, but for starting case wall volume too. A little extra in the walls out of the box leads to more cycles per piece.
 
Would have been useful to have it presented in a table with a row for each shooter (sorted by their ranking) and a column for each step with ‘Always’/’Never’/’When Needed’ or some kind of color code in each box. This would show the various combination of steps each shooter does and would show if there was a trend in how shooters who did certain steps placed.

Information about the brass cleaning method would also be useful (Stainless steel, walnut/corncob/ultrasonic). As would neck preparation. Do they leave the old carbon in? Do they polish the inside of the neck with steel wool or apply a dry lube? All good questions. Also, info like their neck tension, runouts, SD and ES would be good.
 
They did.. "sizing was related to function" paraphrase... so whatever it takes to keep the ammo flowing smoothly.

As F class targets got smaller, the interest in techniques used in BR shooting grew. Now, tech in F class is spilling over into all sorts of LR accuracy shooting disciplines.

It will not be long that PRS rifles and ammo have the same level of consistency and accuracy as F class rifles. The targets are going to start to get smaller and top shooters are going to need that trust in their gear.

Then some other sport will offer a new edge that solves some problem or other... we all have a try and see if we can integrate these new ideas.

With the internet and these open forums, sharing of ideas anywhere on this globe is just a click away. I have learnt alot from other shooters overseas as they have learnt from us.

There are simply "best practises" that apply to all forms of precision shooting... when shooters in those disciplines adopt is just a function of time and need.

With the skyrocketing cost of components, I encourage all interested in LR precision to review the most common methods of loading accurate ammo. Hitting at a high rate is a wonderful feeling...

Missing at a high rate is simply getting too expensive...

YMMV.

Jerry
 
Max Owner said:
I found it interesting to help up my game. I got $8,000 into a Cadex rifle, scope and rings.

So I want get serious about my long range shooting. And thought there would be others interested aswell...
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info! It was an excellent read. I too have just made a significant investment in a long range rig and your spot on about getting serious because as mystic mentioned above its very pricey to miss. Have you checked out any of David Tubbs you tube videos on reloading? Though some are old('92ish) the wealth of information in them is absolutely invaluable. Definitely worth checking into.
 
Hey Kombayotch

two questions.

I was surprised to see the majority of shooters neck turned. Don't you lose brass at each match, and wouldn't that be the driving factor NOT to turn necks?

Secondly what is the smallest target in MOA that a competitor would face? 1/2moa 1/4moa... bigger? It would seem that setting up your reloading to successfully engage the smallest target would be the way to go... achieved by lowering your ES/SD

Thanks
Trevor
 
I find it odd that he shows how shooters placed for whether or not they handloaded, but he doesn't show any relation to how they placed with regard to the reloading steps. Is it like FTR where the middle of the pack shooters tend to take the shotgun approach and do more steps than many of the guys at the top? Maybe... He doesn't give enough data to draw any real conclusions. You also don't know how the question was worded. For example, I know that everyone on the GA Precision shooting team has a 6.5 SAUM, and up until they got the new 6.5 SAUM brass, they had to neck turn the 7 SAUM brass they were using. But, none of them are neck turning their 6mm Creedmoor brass. If the questions was "do you neck turn" without any context, what would they answer? Neck turning is a solution to a problem. You need to do it if you don't have enough clearance in your chamber around the case neck. It will be beneficial if your brass has large variations in neck thickness. But if you have sufficient clearance and you brass has consistent neck thickness, doing it may not yield any improvement whatsoever. More often than not, what it does is remove the burr around the case mouth that is present in all new brass. The burr often causes interference in chambers that have 0.004 neck clearance as it is not totally removed with chamfering/deburring alone.

There are always target that are MOA and usually some that are sub-MOA. The small plates on Know-Your-Limits racks always have sub-MOA targets that are worth a lot of points. In the article, they give the example of a match that had a 1/4 MOA cold bore shot at 800. I know of a match that had a stage where they had a 6" gong and 1000 yards and you took as many shots as you could at it within a 90 second time limit. You are right. In the end what matters is that your ES/SD are low and your rifle groups.
 
Kombayotch, could you give us an idea of your reloading process? These guys must spend a lot of time reloading (or have all the high-end gear) if they are going through 6,000 to 8,000 rounds per year.
 
My best group was virgin win brass necked up

I don't put to much into my loading. I just make sure my charge is good and they are all the same length
 
Ryan.M.Anderson said:
Kombayotch, could you give us an idea of your reloading process? These guys must spend a lot of time reloading (or have all the high-end gear) if they are going through 6,000 to 8,000 rounds per year.
Click to expand...

Again another question that I believe was probably vague. I think much of that includes shooting of training rifles that are chambered in 223 or 22LR. If I add my trainers, I easily shoot that in a year (probably more). My 223 is loaded on an XL-650, so I can crank out a few hundred rounds for weekend training sessions quite easily.

My press is a Forster Co-Ax. My reloading process is as follows:

1) Tumble with walnut to remove carbon.
2) Straighten out case mouth (new brass and fired brass that has been stepped on or has fallen on concrete in matches)
3) Run bullet into case mouth to check for donuts/interference (only on fired cases - the bullet should slide freely if the case mouth hasn't been dented - this may lead me to neck turn 1F cases if all the cases have interference)
4) De-prime
5) Clean primer pocket with primer pocket uniformer (not trying to uniform, I just find it works better than other tools. A half twist does the job.)
5) Thorough cleaning in Ultrasonic unit. (SS media will never touch my match brass again)
6) Anneal (after 3 firings)
7) FL Size
8) Wipe off lube with a towel
9) Run mandrel into neck. I always do this on new cases to make sure the neck is concentric and any dents are fully pushed out. Once cases have been fired, this is simply a test. I want the mandrel to just kiss the neck. If its tight, or if I don't feel any friction, that case is removed from my lot of match cases and used for fouler shots.
10) Trim in my Giraud
11) Chamfer with a K&M tool (particularly important on new cases as the Giraud will not completely get the burr). The alignment pin also knocks any debris out of the flash hole.
12) Twist outside of case mouth in 0000 steel wool to remove any outside burr left by Giraud. On new brass, I will set up a neck turner so that the cutter is just not touching the neck and I will remove anything left of the burr from the case mouth.
13) Run bronze brush wrapped with 0000 steel wool into case mouth for final internal polish.
14) Wipe out case mouth with a bore swab.
15) Seat primer with hand priming tool
16) Weigh charges (Mostly just on 2 tuned Chargemasters. For big matches, I will check charges with my FX-120i.)
17) Seat bullet with match seater
18) Check runout (keep low ones for match, use high ones on train-up day)

I'm pretty anal with loads for my match rifle. But, I only fire it for matches, load development, dope gathering and final practice right before the match. I always temperature test my loads, get as much velocity data I as can (LabRadar is a blessing for this) and true my ballistic calculator with that data, so I don't need to fire it a lot.
 
Great info. How many times can you FL size Lapua brass without annealing?

I have been running mine through 8 FL sizings before I get a new lot. Could I go more?
 
I anneal after 3 firings. After 3 firings, I start to see SD and runouts going up.

I've run my Winchester 6mm Crusader cases up over 20 firings shooting square range matches, same with my Lapua 308 brass. This 6.5x47L brass seems even stronger than the Lapua 308, so I suspect I will lose it before it dies. FL sizing does not cause issues if your chamber is close to resized case dimensions. You will not get head separation quickly if you're only bumping the shoulder back 0.001-0.002. You would not get this many firings with a loose factory chamber FL sizing your cases. I design my reamers based on my FL dies. They are only shrinking the fired case around 0.001 per side below chamber size.
 
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Thanks Kombayotch, fired cases from my AIAW mic 1.625 and my resizing die bumps them back to 1.624 so by sheer coincidence I am getting that 0.001 difference.

I will look into getting an annealer to get more mileage out of the brass.
 
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