reloading newbie question
- Thread starter DLP3000
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Having learned from experience using brass of unknown origin or condition things can happen. I always start from new brass as buying " once fired" is a crapshoot. Not saying the brass you have cannot be used but if your budget allows I would always recommend starting with new so you know what you are dealing with.
Note: Especially with the 7mm RM as ringed magnum cases will often separate just above the ring and that can be a little problematic.
Note: Especially with the 7mm RM as ringed magnum cases will often separate just above the ring and that can be a little problematic.
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- Western Manitoba
I have found that people who do not reload, but "save their brass", often end up with small quantities of mixed head stamps - rifle cartridges. I prefer all the same - like 200 at a time to reload - some will say it won't matter, which it won't - at mild levels - when you get closer to your max, is probable you want to keep as much the same as possible - so often starts with the head stamps - implication is same maker has kept their brass the same over the years, which often is not true - why some of us will go with quantities of new brass - say a couple hundred at a time - same make, same lot - keep that as a "set" until "worn out" - usually primer pockets get too loose - I do not know any remedy for that, except discard and start new batch. Is some people that won't fire 200 rounds in their lifetime, and others who will go through that on a Saturday.
BattleRife
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While the guys above make some good points about the benefits of batch size, and knowing what you have, I submit that yes, technically speaking your brass is just fine. 10 years storage is not normally detrimental.
When I'm using buckshe brass, I check the weights .If old Winchester averages 180gr for 30-06 and new Lapua is 200gr, you can see there will be a difference of internal volume . Where as I have some saved Federal which weights 200gr, I can use the same load as the Lapua, I just wouldn't mix the cartridges. As far as age goes, they will be fine.
As long as your brass is stored properly your brass should be good. I am using 30-06 military brass from the 60’s which some is on its sixth reload without any problems. Plinker loads I would sort by head stamp. Target rifles I start to get picky. My 308 gets Lapua from the same lot#.
Age is less important than the number of times they’ve been fired. If it’s leftover brass from factory ammo you fired then, ya, it’ll be great. If it’s stuff you picked up off the ground at the range, I’d be a bit less enthusiastic about using it.
I’ve heard from guys on here and at my club that brass hardens with age. Sounds like BS to me, and I’ve never had an issue with NOS or old once fired stuff, but then again, maybe they’re right?
I’ve heard from guys on here and at my club that brass hardens with age. Sounds like BS to me, and I’ve never had an issue with NOS or old once fired stuff, but then again, maybe they’re right?
Majority of brass I use was bought from Higginsons, NOS stuff from Sweden made in the 60's, never had an issue with them being old. Some might have tarnish or some minor spots but comes right off in the tumble or quick spin with steel wool.
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- Western Manitoba
I have re-sized R-P brass that was bought new (by me) about 20 years ago - 7x57 - I loaded and fired them then, maybe once or twice - perhaps 1 out of 20 would split neck, when I just tried to re-size them - not sure I had seen any split necks previous to that. I am told that proper annealing will soften it up and the splits will stop. But assumes that all case makers at all times and in all countries, used the exact same alloy of "brass" and same processing of it - which they did not and do not - is most definitely a thing about "corrosion" occurring over decades - some might use less technical term of "age hardening" - but might be specific to the alloy used when that case was made, and what it has experienced since it was made. Generally, I would not consider cases that are 10 years old to be "old", and would not expect them to be much different today, than when they were made. But I could be incorrect about that.
I recently processed circa 250 W-W brass that had been delivered in cardboard box - unknown ages - factory ammo that had been fired - still had what I believe to be the factory primers in them - the shooter had been "keeping" his brass, but never did get into re-loading - 22-250 cases. I found four split necks out of that 250 or so fired brass - not sure shooter even noticed that, or if the splits occurred sometime after the round had been fired. There were lesser amounts of other head stamps - I only picked out the W-W stuff - others have had nothing done to them - headstamps by Barnes, R-P, etc.
In this day and age, no assurance at all that the head stamp has much to do with who made it - classic is the various "Weatherby" headstamped brass here - I am told that Weatherby never made brass cases - were made by Norma, originally - I have no clue who makes them now. So I presume that W-W, R-P, Barnes, Ruag, etc. could now be made about anywhere by who knows who - but might have head stamp of what brand they were sold as. Specifically, is a few bags of Ruag, USA brand brass here - at least that is what label on bag says - each case is head stamped as "MFS" - which is a case maker in Hungary, I think - so I presume is other cases made by same "MFS", with some body else's label on the bag.
I recently processed circa 250 W-W brass that had been delivered in cardboard box - unknown ages - factory ammo that had been fired - still had what I believe to be the factory primers in them - the shooter had been "keeping" his brass, but never did get into re-loading - 22-250 cases. I found four split necks out of that 250 or so fired brass - not sure shooter even noticed that, or if the splits occurred sometime after the round had been fired. There were lesser amounts of other head stamps - I only picked out the W-W stuff - others have had nothing done to them - headstamps by Barnes, R-P, etc.
In this day and age, no assurance at all that the head stamp has much to do with who made it - classic is the various "Weatherby" headstamped brass here - I am told that Weatherby never made brass cases - were made by Norma, originally - I have no clue who makes them now. So I presume that W-W, R-P, Barnes, Ruag, etc. could now be made about anywhere by who knows who - but might have head stamp of what brand they were sold as. Specifically, is a few bags of Ruag, USA brand brass here - at least that is what label on bag says - each case is head stamped as "MFS" - which is a case maker in Hungary, I think - so I presume is other cases made by same "MFS", with some body else's label on the bag.
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BattleRife
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I have to disagree with a couple of things in here. For one, I have never heard any credible claim that any manufacturer of deep-drawn brass cases anywhere uses any alloy other than 70-30 cartridge brass (C36000). Yes, there are small differences in composition from lot to lot, or from brass supplier to brass supplier, but it is still the same alloy grade, and their responses to annealing will be essentially the same.
Also, age hardening and corrosion are unrelated. Age hardening, either intentionally to increase strength or unintentionally to cause embrittlement, occurs in many alloy systems but I have not been able to find any documentation of age hardening occurring in alpha brass alloys. Corrosion on the other hand affects all alloys in one way or another.
Ten years is short period of time for brass. But brass does age out , it takes decades, though. The brass in the cases is an alloy , over time the metal molecules will separate and migrate . You end with copper coloured "brass" . This is what I gathered from some metallurgist describing the process. I had some NOS Browning 30-06 in my stash from Higginson turn copper coloured, so that's why I looked up it up. I'm pretty sure the Browning brass was Norma as Norma use to have a bad rep for being soft. The primer pockets opened up after only a couple loadings.( at most) The load was nothing hot, a pretty standard 2750fps 180gr SST using N560. The worst bags ended up in the scrap bin. I bought some Gevelot stamped brass to replace it. The Gevelot was made by Metalverken , It's different brass than the Browning, it doesn't have as even weights, but does last better. However ,the necks measure <.001" difference in thickness. That's in Lapua range. Reading up, I found Norma and Metalverken merged in the early '60s.
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I was given a full box of 270 Winchester ammunition. [Super-X brand, old style 130 Silvertips]
6 of the 20 loaded rounds had split necks. [never been fired previously]
I pulled it all down, and annealed the remaining 14 cases. The only explanation is age
hardening of this brass, since after annealing, it lasted well.
OTOH, I had some military brass, headstamped LC 43 That showed no signs of hardening
after decades of sitting after being fired. Storage may have a bearing.....who knows? EE.
6 of the 20 loaded rounds had split necks. [never been fired previously]
I pulled it all down, and annealed the remaining 14 cases. The only explanation is age
hardening of this brass, since after annealing, it lasted well.
OTOH, I had some military brass, headstamped LC 43 That showed no signs of hardening
after decades of sitting after being fired. Storage may have a bearing.....who knows? EE.
BattleRife
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No, the only reasonable explanation is stress-corrosion cracking, which is most definitely not age hardening. It is a corrosion process that happens in storage, and is the reason case manufacturers neck anneal in the first place.
You may be correct, but why was there no evidence of any corrosion whatsoever on the necks of the cracked cases?
After annealing....no further cases lost?? Just wondering, EE
BattleRife
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Stress-corrosion cracking does not waste the material away, or even necessarily stain it badly. It causes the crystals of the metal to separate from each other, so they split apart.
As the name suggests, the part has to be under a tensile stress, to open the crack as it proceeds. If the necks were cracked when it was given to you, obviously the previous owner's storage conditions caused the corrosion. My guess is every case that had sufficient stress cracked, the others had stress below the threshold and the cracking never got started. Once it was removed from the environment and given to you, there was no more opportunity to get a crack started.
As the name suggests, the part has to be under a tensile stress, to open the crack as it proceeds. If the necks were cracked when it was given to you, obviously the previous owner's storage conditions caused the corrosion. My guess is every case that had sufficient stress cracked, the others had stress below the threshold and the cracking never got started. Once it was removed from the environment and given to you, there was no more opportunity to get a crack started.
