Reloading Questions - neck turning and mandrels

[JNA]

Neck turning was done in the past to develop consistent neck tension.
Today same can be done with Redding bushing dies. I've found the full length bush die the best.
As for the expensive scale not needed either, you can weigh powder with a good balance scale to the very last kernel of 4350.
Focus on group size at 200 or 300mtrs. If it's for target purposes go to the Berger bullets.

Will look into the bushing die, but not sure what bushings are required.

 

[JNA]

I bought the FX120 scale and the Auto V3 from Cambridge at the same time last March.
It was $1,458 CAD ($1,008 USD at that time) delivered to my door.
So Cambridge's package price probably went up $64 USD (=$1,072-$1,008)..... but buying separately you're having to pay shipping twice.
Either way they probably roughly the same (ish)

Was thinking of the trickler system as well, but it seems like a lot of money.

 

[JNA]

I'll echo the comments above.

Your best path towards small SD/ES is by using quality components (projectiles, brass, powder, primers) as well as powder dispensing equipment. I'll agree that the autotrickler with FX-120i is a really good cost/benefit powder thrower if it's within your budget.

When I first started reloading, I also started with 6.5 Creedmoor and was using Hornady brass. I had a pretty big decrease in SD/ES when I swapped to Lapua, I believe my ES/SD automatically dropped in half. Quality components matter, for me that's Lapua brass and Berger bullets. Primers can also have a difference on ES/SD, but I've never had a reason to test primers with the results I see from CCI's.

Neck turning has a very low performance/time benefit. Unless you have a tight neck chamber (which you most likely don't with a 6.5 Creedmoor), there's very little (arguably zero) real world benefit to turning necks.

Switching to Lapua was my next thought. I bought a box of 100 small rifle primers so will see how that goes.

 

[JNA]

Try a different powder too - my 6.5 cm benchmark HB 1-8t barrel would not shoot the 6 bullets I had with h4350. Switch to R16 and groups cut in half or more. VVn550 is also a good one.
I second the brass prep too - make sure they're clean, all the same length, and cared for exactly the same.
Don't mix anything.

Currently not mixing anything. The group's are still good/great, but I did also buy some reloader 16/17.

 

[Longbow]

Currently not mixing anything. The group's are still good/great, but I did also buy some reloader 16/17.

Quality components, best bullets and brass you can afford and yes accurate and consistent powder weights. Used to sort Brass by weight until I came to understand more about how brass is manufactured.

 

[Munkey1973]

Never thought or heard of the crimp die, but might be something worth looking into.

The guy who made that claim a Lee Crimp Die can reduce ES by 25% didn't elaborate any further.
It is something probably not worth looking into.

While I don't have any experience with a Lee FCD, I am pretty sure their primary function is to crimp a bullet in place, which allows it to be more robust during rough handling.

 

[Maple57]

I have had plenty of groups touching or in one hole at 100 yards and the labradar numbers are all over the place low SD has little to do with accuracy. IMHO

If you are shooting short range, all that matters is accuracy. At short range, velocity spreads can affect barrel harmonics and that can play with accuracy depending on how that barrel is timed and responds when the rifle is fired.

If you are shooting long range, velocity spreads will add up and exaggerate with distance. The farther you shoot, the more it will matter.

In my testing, jump to the lands influences both velocity spreads and accuracy. Too far and pressure leaks around the bullet in the chamber. Too tight and there can be erratic pressure spikes. In between is where both low ES and ideal accuracy.

Weight sorting brass will show up in the aggregate, even if you dont see it in small samples. Again at long range.

Go shoot F Class with a guy who pounds the snot out of a 5 inch bull at 1000 yards... Not some poser guy... A guy who actually does it.... Like Gord Ogg or the Chou brothers... Ask him how many corners he cuts. The answer will be short... None.

As for the Ops RCBS Charmaster... My advice is sell it and spend the money on a set of powder scoops and a high quality 3 digit scale. Forget the automation. Weigh your charges with precision and you have a chance at consistent precision.

You will never shoot better than your weakest link. It always shows up in the aggregate.

 

[Longbow]

If you are shooting short range, all that matters is accuracy. At short range, velocity spreads can affect barrel harmonics and that can play with accuracy depending on how that barrel is timed and responds when the rifle is fired.

If you are shooting long range, velocity spreads will add up and exaggerate with distance. The farther you shoot, the more it will matter.

In my testing, jump to the lands influences both velocity spreads and accuracy. Too far and pressure leaks around the bullet in the chamber. Too tight and there can be erratic pressure spikes. In between is where both low ES and ideal accuracy.

Weight sorting brass will show up in the aggregate, even if you dont see it in small samples. Again at long range.

Go shoot F Class with a guy who pounds the snot out of a 5 inch bull at 1000 yards... Not some poser guy... A guy who actually does it.... Like Gord Ogg or the Chou brothers... Ask him how many corners he cuts. The answer will be short... None.

As for the Ops RCBS Charmaster... My advice is sell it and spend the money on a set of powder scoops and a high quality 3 digit scale. Forget the automation. Weigh your charges with precision and you have a chance at consistent precision.

You will never shoot better than your weakest link. It always shows up in the aggregate.

If you have the time sure, but suppose it depends on how you sort your brass. Most folks weigh their brass under the assumption that there is repeatable relationship between weight and volume, yet with the way brass is manufactured most of those weight variations show up in the case head and may or may not affect volume. You could always use the H20 method to determine volume, but that sure aint fun. But hey its your time

 

[Maple57]

If you have the time sure, but suppose it depends on how you sort your brass. Most folks weigh their brass under the assumption that there is repeatable relationship between weight and volume, yet with the way brass is manufactured most of those weight variations show up in the case head and may or may not affect volume. You could always use the H20 method to determine volume, but that sure aint fun. But hey its your time

Weight is equal to volume. That's the end of it.

The chamber is the container. How full the container is is a derivative of the volume of what you put in it. The more brass you have, the lower the volume.

The volume of a case outside of a chamber and in the absence of pressure is almost irrelevant.

As for the time... Well there's precision shooting and plinking. If you are plinking, then use a powder scoop and a progressive loader. If you are precision shooting, then you gotta do what you gotta do and forget all the excuses.

Didn't have time is just one of the excuses you will hear at every wailing wall.

 

[Trevor60]

Hello All,

With COVID I have started reloading more and have finally gotten out to the range recently to try some of my loads.

I am currently shooting 6.5 creedmoor and had set up a couple of loads towards the higher side of the Hornady manual using Hodgdon H4350.

I had full length sized the once fired cases (Hornady) with the expander still installed. Remove the expander mandrel this is a determent to your reloads
Add the Lee Collet to your sizing operation after FLS this will give you more consistent neck tension

I trimmed to minimum length, deburred and primed with large primer FGMM.

For the powder I was using H4350 coming from a Chargemaster and I checked the load three times for each round. As others have stated the greatest improvement to your ES/SD will be accurate powder measuring...the FX120i is excellent choice... YOU WANT the autotrickler you don't need the autotrickler

I seated the bullets with Forster seating die, slightly under max COAL with 140 grain Hornady ELDs.

With some of these loads on my labradar I was getting:

Average velocity: 2765 fps extreme spread 31 and standard deviation 14.1

Second set, velocity: 2728 fps extreme spread 41 and standard deviation 12.8

The group's shot well at 100yards from my rifle Cadex Sheepdog with 26" unisig barrel, but I am not sure how to bring those numbers down..

I have been looking online and saw expander mandrel as well as neck turning mandrels or neck turning tools were a good way to decrease SD and deviation, but was not sure which way to proceed. what is your chamber next dim if known you dont have to turn necks what you need is consistent neck tension you could buy different expanders ht tp://www.xxicsi.com/caliber-specific-expander-mandrels.html along with different bushings to control neck tension

Should I go with the expander and neck turning mandrels from Sinclair with a Redding type S bushing die?

Or is there something else/ different I should use. I have some other tools such as collet dies and body dies, but wanted to check what others were doing.

Cheers
Trevor

 

[BCBRAD]

Ya, probably not worth your effort.


The guy who made that claim a Lee Crimp Die can reduce ES by 25% didn't elaborate any further.
It is something probably not worth looking into.

While I don't have any experience with a Lee FCD, I am pretty sure their primary function is to crimp a bullet in place, which allows it to be more robust during rough handling.

 

[JNA]

So far I'm leaning towards:

Buying the Fx120i scale
Getting Redding type s bushing dies or Lee Wilson bushing dies