Reloading steps check - 8x57

[H Wally]

Heyo - so long story short, I'm on the cusp of being able to reload all my brass. At the moment every caliber I have needs something (.303 needs case length trimmer, 7.62x54r needs bullets, 8x57 needs new depriming pin etc etc etc).

I did however have 19 hornady 150 grain .323 bullets, some rifle primers, and 30 odd resized, deprimed, and under OAL cartridge length 8x57 pieces of brass.

I've completed 3 of them and wanted to check my steps before I get a chance to do 300 and find out I've done something wrong.

Does this sound right?

(all guiding numbers and measurements are from the Speer 1987 reloading manual)

8x57 resized brass was all under 56.90 mm / 2.240" OAL. The few that were slightly over were shortened and deburred.

19 .323 150 grain jacketed bullets are being used in a yugoslavian m24/47 with a bore diameter of .322 .

Powder used in each cartridge is 50.0 grains of IMR 4350. This is one grain under the starting reload suggestion (I made my own dipper, it does 50 grains, not 51)

The 50 grains of 4350 does not touch the bottom of the bullet when seated, is this ok?

The total OAL including the bullet is 75.55 mm.
Is this an acceptable OAL, or is this determined otherwise?

All of my reloading books neglect to mention overall length including bullet. I assume the most length possible in the magazine, provided there isn't a large air gap in the cartridge is best?

Also, I assume it should take up all the freebore and the sides of the bullet should stop just short of engaging the rifling in the barrel when chambered?

Thanks in advance for any advice or suggestions you have - Most of it makes sense, but I want to be sure before I end up having made 300-600 bullets only to find out I messed up somewhere

 

[Winnipeg Toymaker]

Brass under or equal to 2.240 are fine.
bullets are correct caliber.
there are 3 types of 4350 powder.and they range from 38 grains to 50 grains minimum load.. Which are you using?
the air gap is fine .
OAL is to be 3.250

Is the book you are using a hornady third edition. it suggests the 50 gr IMR 4350 , but my Lee loading book says 38 grains of IMR 4350 to max of 43 grains. Perhaps someone could enlighten on this contradicting info.

 

[H Wally]

Brass under or equal to 2.240 are fine.
bullets are correct caliber.
there are 3 types of 4350 powder.and they range from 38 grains to 50 grains minimum load.. Which are you using?
the air gap is fine .
OAL is to be 3.250

Is the book you are using a hornady third edition. it suggests the 50 gr IMR 4350 , but my Lee loading book says 38 grains of IMR 4350 to max of 43 grains. Perhaps someone could enlighten on this contradicting info.

The edition is the Speer number 11, 4th edition.

How would I identify which 4350 powder I am using? The container's only markings are IMR 4350 smokeless powder. All the rest of the stuff on it is about safe reloading and safety warnings... I bought it new a few weeks ago, it has the usual black plastic container, red lid, and brown label.

Bullet OAL is 2.972, so I guess I'm quite ok on that

 

[joe-nwt]

The edition is the Speer number 11, 4th edition.

How would I identify which 4350 powder I am using? The container's only markings are IMR 4350 smokeless powder. All the rest of the stuff on it is about safe reloading and safety warnings... I bought it new a few weeks ago, it has the usual black plastic container, red lid, and brown label.

Bullet OAL is 2.972, so I guess I'm quite ok on that

No offense, but go back and read the manual again. You must have missed the page on how to identify powders. There are also Accurate arms 4350 and H4350.

Also, there is no real reason to go below the listed starting charge. Although not likely an issue with what you have done so far, there will be some info on reduced charges you may want to read.

Seriously, do not forgo the information in the manual for what someone may forget to tell you here.

 

[H Wally]

No offense, but go back and read the manual again. You must have missed the page on how to identify powders. There are also Accurate arms 4350 and H4350.

Also, there is no real reason to go below the listed starting charge. Although not likely an issue with what you have done so far, there will be some info on reduced charges you may want to read.

Seriously, do not forgo the information in the manual for what someone may forget to tell you here.

Yep - did miss it, it's extruded. It's also definitely IMR 4350. Neither manual offers much info on which type to use (I'll read back again). I did one grain below because that's what the dipper I'm using does 50 grains, so if there isn't likely a big difference, the it saves me measuring out the extra grain every time. Now I've got slightly more of a clue I'll try making a higher capacity dipper.

 

[Ganderite]

"All of my reloading books neglect to mention overall length including bullet. I assume the most length possible in the magazine, provided there isn't a large air gap in the cartridge is best?

Also, I assume it should take up all the freebore and the sides of the bullet should stop just short of engaging the rifling in the barrel when chambered?"

50 grains should be a nice, mild load.

If your can says "IMR 4350" then it is IMR. That is one of the flavours if 4350You have correctly identified your powder. It is faster than H4350, so don't use H4350 data.

The air gap is normal.

Max OAl is determined by mag length, (if you want to use the mag) and keeping the bullet off the rifling. As a starting point, I suggest the shortest of mag length or 20 thou off the rifling.

 

[sunray]

"...needs new depriming pin..." Take one out of another decapping rod. They're all the same size. It's a nuisance, but you won't be held up waiting for a pin either. If you have RCBS dies, call 'em and they'll send you some pins.
"...much info on which type to use..." A 1987 Speer manual means IMR4350. Hodgdon bought IMR in 2003. Manuals don't tell you what powder to use. Just how much.
The burn rates of each maker's powder is slightly, very slightly different though. IMR4350 burns slightly faster than H4350. H4350 burns slightly faster than AA4350. The three fall at 91, 92 and 93 on Hodgdon's burn rate chart. They aren't interchangeable though.
Mind you, Hodgdon doesn't show either 4350 for an 8mm on their site. However, my elderly Lyman book gives 50.0 to 56.0(compressed) of IMR4350 for a 150 grain jacketed bullet. Don't worry about compressed loads.
"...the dipper I'm using..." A Lee dipper? Pitch the dipper and use a scale. The dippers can vary the charge plus or minus a full grain. At the starting load, it's not a horrible thing even if you end up with 49.0. While going under minimum isn't a good idea, one grain won't give you to much grief. If you end up with ammo loaded with different charges, you won't have consistent groups.

 

[H Wally]

"All of my reloading books neglect to mention overall length including bullet. I assume the most length possible in the magazine, provided there isn't a large air gap in the cartridge is best?

Also, I assume it should take up all the freebore and the sides of the bullet should stop just short of engaging the rifling in the barrel when chambered?"

50 grains should be a nice, mild load.

If your can says "IMR 4350" then it is IMR. That is one of the flavours if 4350You have correctly identified your powder. It is faster than H4350, so don't use H4350 data.

The air gap is normal.

Max OAl is determined by mag length, (if you want to use the mag) and keeping the bullet off the rifling. As a starting point, I suggest the shortest of mag length or 20 thou off the rifling.

In my speer manual it offered measurements for IMR 4350, so that should be ok.

I'll give that a shot with the OAL too!

"...needs new depriming pin..." Take one out of another decapping rod. They're all the same size. It's a nuisance, but you won't be held up waiting for a pin either. If you have RCBS dies, call 'em and they'll send you some pins.
"...much info on which type to use..." A 1987 Speer manual means IMR4350. Hodgdon bought IMR in 2003. Manuals don't tell you what powder to use. Just how much.
The burn rates of each maker's powder is slightly, very slightly different though. IMR4350 burns slightly faster than H4350. H4350 burns slightly faster than AA4350. The three fall at 91, 92 and 93 on Hodgdon's burn rate chart. They aren't interchangeable though.
Mind you, Hodgdon doesn't show either 4350 for an 8mm on their site. However, my elderly Lyman book gives 50.0 to 56.0(compressed) of IMR4350 for a 150 grain jacketed bullet. Don't worry about compressed loads.
"...the dipper I'm using..." A Lee dipper? Pitch the dipper and use a scale. The dippers can vary the charge plus or minus a full grain. At the starting load, it's not a horrible thing even if you end up with 49.0. While going under minimum isn't a good idea, one grain won't give you to much grief. If you end up with ammo loaded with different charges, you won't have consistent groups.

My dies are Lee dies, and from what I understand the expanding ball and pin are one piece? (or at least the pin is very very firmly embedded in the expanding ball, unlike the RCBS ones that can be separated - here's the thread on it: http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=270143)

The dipper I'm using is an 8mm case that had a cracked neck. I cut it down until it held exactly 50 grains of powder. It holds that consistantly, and that way I can dip into the powder, toss quickly onto the scale to double check, then off into the cartridge. So far I've tried it a fair bit and it's pretty good, and it mainly saves the time from working my way from 45 grains to 50, one grain at a time.

I suppose that's why it's good to have a powder trickler though...

 

[sunray]

"...working my way from 45 grains to 50, one grain at a time..." 45 grains of IMR4350 is way under minimum. 45 grains can give you the same bad ju-ju as 5 grains over max. Work up the load from 50 grains.

 

[stickhunter]

"...working my way from 45 grains to 50, one grain at a time..." 45 grains of IMR4350 is way under minimum. 45 grains can give you the same bad ju-ju as 5 grains over max. Work up the load from 50 grains.

I believe the original poster is referring to trickling from 45 to 50 grains in order to reach his starting load, not developing individual loads at 45, 46, ... 50 grains.

Regardless, it's a good warning to be careful not to go under the minimum charge. Some powders behave very badly in this circumstance.

 

[toyboy]

do yourself a favour and buy an electronic scale.i picked up a frankford arsenal for 55 plus tax at dante.you can get something for 40 or so shipped on flea-bay.make sure it comes w/ a calibration weight.it's a tiny plastic scale but goes down to .1 grain.much faster and more accurate(i hope)
than that balance beam i got from lee.

 

[H Wally]

I believe the original poster is referring to trickling from 45 to 50 grains in order to reach his starting load, not developing individual loads at 45, 46, ... 50 grains.

Regardless, it's a good warning to be careful not to go under the minimum charge. Some powders behave very badly in this circumstance.

You've got it - I wanted to start at 51 grains as the manual suggested, but I made the cut slightly too small, so now it's 50 grains

do yourself a favour and buy an electronic scale.i picked up a frankford arsenal for 55 plus tax at dante.you can get something for 40 or so shipped on flea-bay.make sure it comes w/ a calibration weight.it's a tiny plastic scale but goes down to .1 grain.much faster and more accurate(i hope)
than that balance beam i got from lee.

Just curious - I can get a very accurate digital scale, but what is the conversion for grains? Somehow I doubt it normally measures in grains, but is there a conversion from grains to grams? (if I just asked a phenomenally stupid question, please, I plead ignorance)

 

[toyboy]

most of the scales out there do grams(stoners),grains(gun-nutz),dwt(carats for diamond hoarders) and ounce(sp?) (for weight moving stoners).
mine goes down to .1 grain and the cheapo ones on flea-bay go down to .2 grains.they have a "tare" function to zero out your powder tray.they're good for checking the actual weight of you bullets(they can vary+= a few grains so if you really want to be a "sniper snob" then you need the exact same weight on your bullets too...

 

[Klunk]

most of the scales out there do grams(stoners),grains(gun-nutz),dwt(carats for diamond hoarders) and ounce(sp?) (for weight moving stoners).
.

All my doobies come out to 70-75 grains includng rolling paper...

the balance scales always seemed more accurate to me...but the electronic scales are great for weighing boolets to seperate em into matching weights