lejarretnoir
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- 162km from Connaught
My apology to all for being responsible for hijacking this thread.
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=231012
Since I didn't know that this was an ongoing controversy in the past here and with the release of Remington's new modified bolt for their .338 Lapua Mag, I decided to bring this thread here for further attention.
The problem with the other thread is that most information is being handed down as 2nd and 3rd party stories. I was also responsible for passing on 2nd party info from other smith's, but also included my own 1st hand experiences. As interesting as it is to hear tales that may be true or not, they really cannot stand up as true empirical evidence. Would these stories and opinions stand up in a court of law under prosecution? Of course not.
I was interested in the Sako conversion as I had a few bolts modified some 10 yrs ago and was told it was a great way to change the existing boltface for an odd size like the 6PPC or 6.5x55 Swede, then add a Sako extractor because they are easier on case rims. Nothing wrong with the original Rem extractor and with a little polishing, could also be made to not gouge the brass rim. Not all of them did that, but one .223 I owned was eating away the rims off the cases.
Please take in consideration, I'm a Remington fan and always have been. Dennis Sorensen made some valid points about the strength and quality of the 700. I'm not here to dispute that or attack him or anyone else. That was never my intention, but when someone I don't know says my firearms are unsafe, I want to know why and have proof about that. Why should I accept anything else? Would you?
Now the good stuff.
I happen to know a gent whose name I cannot say because of his wishes and employment. He worked at Aberdeen Prooving Grounds where basically all firearms that the US Military used during the Vietnam era were tested under his supervision. That happened to include the Rem 700. He was also in direct communique with Remington at the time.
Guess what?
Remington did actually test their 700 with a Sako extractor conversion and he witnessed it. Of course Remington isn't going to post their experiments with the public, but if anybody has seen the documentation, I'd be most interested.
In any case, Remington did actually conclude that they could blow the Sako extractor off with catastrophic case failure. Of course, my APG friend has never witnessed it on a 700 with all the conversions he's seen, but Remington did prove it can be done. They also found that good quality cases were needed to prevent it and any case with nicks in the web loaded to higher than normal pressure would be the ones to let go. Commercial cases are also thinner than military cases and more easier to blow up.
They also did test the AR extractor and found it to be much better in their bolts.
The reasons are:
The AR extractor takes a lighter cut than the Sako and doesn't cut into the boltface.
The AR is pinned and not just pressed into a slot.
After looking at the two, I can agree with that. That is not to say you cannot do well with the Sako extractor, it's just that you need to be more prudent. Good quality cases, proper reloading and such. Had I known this, I would have elected for the AR conversion instead, but I didn't know anyone doing it at the time.
I also have a proposition for those who feel insecure about their Sako modded bolts and actions. If you feel you cannot shoot them and cannot sell it to anyone else because of your conscious, I'll gladly accept them as a donation or pay you what I can. If it's a barreled action, I could remove the barrel and send it back, free of charge or buy it at scrap value. I could use the barrels also even if they're worn out completely. Just send a PM with a pic.
I will be building a test gun and have the plans now to construct one with a proper housing to contain the exploded parts including the barrel. My APG friend will be most interested in the experiments and will most likely mentor me. I will document it all with photos. I'll also include testing I've done in the past. Who knows, maybe I'll write a book. I'll give credit to those who donate.
If the Admin/Mods think I've overstepped the rules, then please delete this.
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=231012
Since I didn't know that this was an ongoing controversy in the past here and with the release of Remington's new modified bolt for their .338 Lapua Mag, I decided to bring this thread here for further attention.
The problem with the other thread is that most information is being handed down as 2nd and 3rd party stories. I was also responsible for passing on 2nd party info from other smith's, but also included my own 1st hand experiences. As interesting as it is to hear tales that may be true or not, they really cannot stand up as true empirical evidence. Would these stories and opinions stand up in a court of law under prosecution? Of course not.
I was interested in the Sako conversion as I had a few bolts modified some 10 yrs ago and was told it was a great way to change the existing boltface for an odd size like the 6PPC or 6.5x55 Swede, then add a Sako extractor because they are easier on case rims. Nothing wrong with the original Rem extractor and with a little polishing, could also be made to not gouge the brass rim. Not all of them did that, but one .223 I owned was eating away the rims off the cases.
Please take in consideration, I'm a Remington fan and always have been. Dennis Sorensen made some valid points about the strength and quality of the 700. I'm not here to dispute that or attack him or anyone else. That was never my intention, but when someone I don't know says my firearms are unsafe, I want to know why and have proof about that. Why should I accept anything else? Would you?
Now the good stuff.
I happen to know a gent whose name I cannot say because of his wishes and employment. He worked at Aberdeen Prooving Grounds where basically all firearms that the US Military used during the Vietnam era were tested under his supervision. That happened to include the Rem 700. He was also in direct communique with Remington at the time.
Guess what?
Remington did actually test their 700 with a Sako extractor conversion and he witnessed it. Of course Remington isn't going to post their experiments with the public, but if anybody has seen the documentation, I'd be most interested.
In any case, Remington did actually conclude that they could blow the Sako extractor off with catastrophic case failure. Of course, my APG friend has never witnessed it on a 700 with all the conversions he's seen, but Remington did prove it can be done. They also found that good quality cases were needed to prevent it and any case with nicks in the web loaded to higher than normal pressure would be the ones to let go. Commercial cases are also thinner than military cases and more easier to blow up.
They also did test the AR extractor and found it to be much better in their bolts.
The reasons are:
The AR extractor takes a lighter cut than the Sako and doesn't cut into the boltface.
The AR is pinned and not just pressed into a slot.
After looking at the two, I can agree with that. That is not to say you cannot do well with the Sako extractor, it's just that you need to be more prudent. Good quality cases, proper reloading and such. Had I known this, I would have elected for the AR conversion instead, but I didn't know anyone doing it at the time.
I also have a proposition for those who feel insecure about their Sako modded bolts and actions. If you feel you cannot shoot them and cannot sell it to anyone else because of your conscious, I'll gladly accept them as a donation or pay you what I can. If it's a barreled action, I could remove the barrel and send it back, free of charge or buy it at scrap value. I could use the barrels also even if they're worn out completely. Just send a PM with a pic.
I will be building a test gun and have the plans now to construct one with a proper housing to contain the exploded parts including the barrel. My APG friend will be most interested in the experiments and will most likely mentor me. I will document it all with photos. I'll also include testing I've done in the past. Who knows, maybe I'll write a book. I'll give credit to those who donate.
If the Admin/Mods think I've overstepped the rules, then please delete this.
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