Rem 700P and 700LTR= help me understand.

Gillis2

Gillis2

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Hi all,
Maybe some of you who are of more knowledge can help me understand here:
I am reading about the good old Rem 700 Police. The standard version offers a 26 inches bull barrell and the LTR version offers a 20 inches fluted bull barrell. Remington state that the LTR's fluted barrell help dissipating heat ( I understand that ) but also improves accuracy as it is more rigid... So here is my question: How does a barrell that has some material taken off and is therefore less massive get more rigid ?
I would think that the LTR's barrell is less solid.
Thanks for your opinions

Gilbert
 
Think of a solid beam of steel, now think of an I-beam. Which is used in building structures more often? The I-beam as it gets a greater (or equal amount) of strength for far less material due to structural design. Plus the 20 inch barrel will be more ridged over the 26 inch (assuming same diameter size) as there is just less to it (try snapping a pencil in half, pretty easy, now try to snap a 1" pencil in half... alot harder to do). You will lose muzzle velocity as not as much pressure will be build up in the 20 inch barrel. Some wiser/smarter people then I will surely help pitch in as well.
 
Just having a shorter barrel changes harmonics, but having .010 in flutes does not make a lot of difference!
 
I have a 700p in 223 w/26" barrel, the heavy barrels are pretty rigid and I don't know about the real world but on a computer it would show more whip than a shorter one . Math can prove it but -Sales hype (fps is math too)? Don't hear of many compitision guys worrying about accuracy with their long barrels but they sure do weigh more than a 20"
I have a 20" ctr that is just as accurate as my 700p but it would take a better shooter /reloader than me to say which one is more so
 
AI did years of testing flutted barrels to stard ones and as i recall it came out to be no benefit. Looks kool though in the right applications
 
Thanks all for your replies. Interesting facts and thoughts you guys are bringing in. Keep them coming.

Gilbert
 
Copied and pasted this from a guy who can explain it better than I can.




Lots of myths and misunderstanding about fluted barrels. A fluted barrel is stiffer than a non fluted barrel of the same length, and weight.
Click to expand...

Lets say you have two bull barrels that are 24 inches long and are .900 inches diameter at the muzzel. One is fluted the other is not. The fluted one will be lighter but LESS STIFF.

Now lets say you have two barrels that are 24 inches long and weigh 6 lbs. One is fluted and the other is not. The fluted barrel is stiffer because the overall diameter of the barrel is larger making it stiffer, but due to the cutting away flutes is the same WEIGHT as a smaller diameter non fluted barrel.
Click to expand...


As for harmonics, it is quite possible that there could be small gains, but the accuracy of the firearm will likely come down to the rifling, crown, and overall firearm construction than anything fluting may or may not do. I personally have not seen any compelling enough evidence of fluting increasing accuracy to make me believe that claim at this time.


The largest benefit to fluting is far and away the increased surface area available for passive air cooling. Just like the heat sinks on your computers CPU and GPU fans, or the radiator on your vehicle, increasing the surface area that the heat can dissipate to will decrease temperatures faster. That said, unless you are some of the top precision shooters in the world with skills that can regularly match your rifle, the benefit is seen much more clearly on high volume automatic firearms (Think beltfed), or large caliber firearms or cannons that can produce a good deal of barrel heat in a small number of shots.
 
In all practicality flutes on a rifle are meaningless for cooling. If you think it would matter to cool off barrels ALL machine guns would be fluted barrels. But you never see that, but in machine gun it matter way more to cool off, don't you think?

If the barrel is fluted after it was rifled, the only real outcome if any could be negative, if any. It adds stress on the metal you can't possibly remove.

To the original question of "how a barrel with some material taken off could be more ridged" - it cant. Just pure bs.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSMwCXO2gbU

http://precisionrifleblog.com/2014/11/18/rifle-barrels-what-the-pros-use/
 
Fins are exactly not flutes which are obvious by the ... different name to begin with?

Fins are thin and high, they stand out of the barrel and have nothing to do with rigidity, but only to improve cooling. Japanese Type 11 and Type 92 machine guns would be your best choice to troll me here.

Flutes are cuts to the barrel to reduce weight with less loss of rigidity, increased cooling surface is a minor bonus to that.
 
owlowl said:
In all practicality flutes on a rifle are meaningless for cooling. If you think it would matter to cool off barrels ALL machine guns would be fluted barrels. But you never see that, but in machine gun it matter way more to cool off, don't you think?
Click to expand...


Agreed. It is a cost vs effectiveness argument when it comes to military firearms. Whatever small gains in cooling are gained from fluting are quickly made quite expensive on large scale military contracts due to the cost of machining. There are likely measurable gains, just not significant enough to justify the added complexity and expense.

A neat idea, but as you said, for practical purposes, very few firearms ever use them.
 
The folks at accuracy international ran tests in 2013, attaching lasers to the scope, action and barrel. They showed that as a barrel heated, fluted barrels had a larger POI shift than non fluted tubes.

While neither the LTR or police rifles are exactly AI accurate, is fluting adding another problem to the laundry list of issues that a new Remington may or may not have?

Lol that's the challenge with Big Green. Fluted or no, you might get a match winning rifle or you might get a turd. :p
 
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