Remington 1858 Antique, and Carry...Three Questions...

Rman

Rman

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Hello. I have an opportunity to purchase a quality, original Remmy 1858. I have read damn near all of threads, looked at the flow charts, and read some more. My eyes are bleeding. I have some yes and no questions, and am asking for help. I don't want to get into the why's, just the how's.

I have one very obviously antique Remmy Model 1858 revolver, manufactured in 1861. This is considered an antique in its current cap and ball form.

Do I require an RCMP letter for this revolver?
If yes, please tell me how to go about getting one.

What happens to the antique status when I run a cartridge converter cylinder chambered in either 44 special, or 44 Magnum? That is to say, that is what will be stamped on the brass in the cylinder. These cartridges are not on the list. Is this still legal, and will it null the antique status?

As long as the frame of the revolver remains original, can substitue new/reproduction parts up to and including a barrel?

Thanks for your help.

R.
 
No, you don't need a letter.

Yes, this gun is still an antique with a cartridge converter.

Yes, you can replace parts... The frame is considered the gun.
 
id not run any .44 cartridge out of it barrels are around .45 cal and the frames are not strong enough for modern cartridges id go .45 S&W with a light soft cast bullet and BP
 
antiqueguy said:
id not run any .44 cartridge out of it barrels are around .45 cal and the frames are not strong enough for modern cartridges id go .45 S&W with a light soft cast bullet and BP
Click to expand...

I'm 99% that you can get those krist cartridge converters in.45 ACP for these guns. No reason why that wouldn't work. Some cast bulits and webley type loads and you'd be laughing
 
Best avoid smokeless altogether in that gun, it is hard on old steel or iron, which that one most likely is. I have to laugh when I see antiques on the EE advertised as "pitted from black powder use". That pitting wasn't caused by BP, it is far more likely from corrosive priming and the residue from Unique, Sharpshooter, Bullseye, etc. When smokeless was first being used to reload for older guns, many shooters found, to their horror, that the new powders literally ate their barrels. Sharpshooter was one of the worst, with its high nitro content. The old steel just couldn't take the heat. That is why it is not smart to use magnum primers in old guns, too.
 
A.moore said:
I'm 99% that you can get those krist cartridge converters in.45 ACP for these guns. No reason why that wouldn't work. Some cast bulits and webley type loads and you'd be laughing
Click to expand...

no smokeless at all in a cap and ball gun thats what this will always be modern cap and ball guns are made from better steels then the pre 1898 stuff your just looking to mess up the frame of these guns using smokeless
 
Guys, thank you all for the information so far. I now have a few more questions regarding smokeless loads.
According to the information here, I cannot run 45 Colt brass in the converter, correct?
If run 44 Special or 44 Mag brass in the converter, loaded with a 45 cal, 250 grain bullet at 750fps, would this be hard on the frame?

Thanks!

R.
 
I think you need to slug the bore and confirm what the groove diameter of the bullet is. Your limitation on what cartridge it is chambered for, revolves around not using one of the 8 or so cartridges which are on the "no go" list and which would remove the gun from the antique category. Further you want to avoid cartridges which are just too high a pressure for your gun; 44 magnum would be an example, even if the bore permitted shooting it. Finally you need to be familiar with the loading tables and decide if there are any smokeless loads which are sufficiently low pressure that they would not damage the gun. Trail Boss is about the only powder I can think of which seems on the surface to be fairly fool proof. Otherwise stick with black powder

cheers mooncoon
 
Hello Mooncoon.
I was more concerned about the stamping on the actual brass, then what combination went inside of it.
Keeping pressures low is the key, this why I asked about the 250 grain load at 750 fps.

Thanks.

R.
 
By a converter in 45ACP it will not take a 45colt but you can use shortened 45 Schofield or of course 45acp brass with .454 bullets seems to work the best buy a extra hand as the original will not work and the new one will need to be bent and timed to the cylinder also the cylinder may need to be shortened slightly on a lath so I hope you are mechanical
 
mooncoon said:
I think you need to slug the bore and confirm what the groove diameter of the bullet is. Your limitation on what cartridge it is chambered for, revolves around not using one of the 8 or so cartridges which are on the "no go" list and which would remove the gun from the antique category. Further you want to avoid cartridges which are just too high a pressure for your gun; 44 magnum would be an example, even if the bore permitted shooting it. Finally you need to be familiar with the loading tables and decide if there are any smokeless loads which are sufficiently low pressure that they would not damage the gun. Trail Boss is about the only powder I can think of which seems on the surface to be fairly fool proof. Otherwise stick with black powder

cheers mooncoon
Click to expand...

trailboss is a problem causer for asntiques too much pressure at the breech
 
DEZ said:
By a converter in 45ACP it will not take a 45colt but you can use shortened 45 Schofield or of course 45acp brass with .454 bullets seems to work the best buy a extra hand as the original will not work and the new one will need to be bent and timed to the cylinder also the cylinder may need to be shortened slightly on a lath so I hope you are mechanical
Click to expand...

as long as its a BP load in the casing
 
antiqueguy said:
as long as its a BP load in the casing
Click to expand...

Exactly. But, why even bother? You have a perfectly good cap and ball revolver. If you want something more powerful, buy a modern revolver. Or if you insist on smokeless, buy a revolver made for it, like the French 1892, or one of the upgraded Webley's that has the hardened breech plate and newer cylinder.
 
Just a by-the-way, I shoot my original Remington New army regularly and a .454 ball is a tight fit in the cylinder. Use 25 grains fffg with 2 lubed wads and bore butter with beeswax to seal the front of the loaded cylinder. Works really well and if you can be content with 6 shots just load at home and transport with cyl out of gun. I usually take 2 or 3 pieces to shoot at each visit to our range.
 
I have a revolver which sounds as if it might be somewhat similar to yours.

Mine was built in 1863, was converted to take the 44/100 revolver round in 1867 or 1868 and was sold surplus when the new Colt came out in 1873.

Mine, however, is a REMINGTON and it says so, right on the barrel.

I have no idea what a "Remmy" might be.

The conversion to cartridge configuration involves a great deal more than a simple cylinder swap.

Once the job is done, you no longer have an original piece and the value is gone.

The cartridge conversion process is NOT reversible.

A 250-grain bullet at 700 ft/sec would be FAR too much strain on that old IRON frame. g:

I would strongly advise against this course of action.
 
smellie said:
I have a revolver which sounds as if it might be somewhat similar to yours.

Mine was built in 1863, was converted to take the 44/100 revolver round in 1867 or 1868 and was sold surplus when the new Colt came out in 1873.

Mine, however, is a REMINGTON and it says so, right on the barrel.

I have no idea what a "Remmy" might be.

The conversion to cartridge configuration involves a great deal more than a simple cylinder swap.

Once the job is done, you no longer have an original piece and the value is gone.

The cartridge conversion process is NOT reversible.

A 250-grain bullet at 700 ft/sec would be FAR too much strain on that old IRON frame. g:

I would strongly advise against this course of action.
Click to expand...

i think he is talking more just a conversion cylinder the kind you have to take out to reload atleast i hope
 
That's what mine is.

They also installed a PLATE behind the new Cylinder to keep it from backing itself INTO the frame.

Hammer also was modded.

Twosteam has posted photos of mine previously.

It looks awful but it's real: battlefield pickup from the Black Hills War, 1876.
 
He is talking about a new barrel , cylinder , and innards. Wherever Mr. Remington is buried the ground shifted as he rolled over.
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