Remington Premier STS Competition Shotguns

There is a good reason why they are no longer around: they are garbage compared to what can one purchase from Italy! A CG or lower priced Beretta is 10 times the gun!

Regards,
Henry;)
 
hnachaj said:
There is a good reason why they are no longer around: they are garbage compared to what can one purchase from Italy! A CG or lower priced Beretta is 10 times the gun!

Regards,
Henry;)
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Did not some Caesar Guerini's blow up on trap ranges and seriously injure shooters? Have to agree STS Prem. Compititions are bent iron.
 
Reloaded ammo issues!!! One blew in Canada and another at the Marine Quantico trap & skeet field. In both cases, reloaded ammo were shot. CGs are proofed in Italy at 1.5X maximum SAAMI pressures, as all Euro manufaturers have to. NA and others such as Turkey, Japan etc do not pressure test their firearms! They may test fire for function, but that is it!

Regards,
Henry;)
 
hnachaj said:
Reloaded ammo issues!!! One blew in Canada and another at the Marine Quantico trap & skeet field. In both cases, reloaded ammo were shot. CGs are proofed in Italy at 1.5X maximum SAAMI pressures, as all Euro manufaturers have to. NA and others such as Turkey, Japan etc do not pressure test their firearms! They may test fire for function, but that is it!

Regards,
Henry;)
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So does that mean you can't use reloads in a CG? That is a gun I would not buy.
 
hnachaj said:
Reloaded ammo issues!!! One blew in Canada and another at the Marine Quantico trap & skeet field. In both cases, reloaded ammo were shot. CGs are proofed in Italy at 1.5X maximum SAAMI pressures, as all Euro manufaturers have to. NA and others such as Turkey, Japan etc do not pressure test their firearms! They may test fire for function, but that is it!

Regards,
Henry;)
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I don't know about the accident in Kelowna re: CG failure but I thought the marine core study/investigation proved the ammo not to have been the cause? I may be wrong though:)
 
No, it means that you must be carefull reloading as a double charge is something tha can easily happen! Just about all firearms manufacturers do not warranty ANY firearm that shoots a reloaded shell! I have seen commercially reloaded pistol ammo with a triple charge detonate a revolver. There were other loaded 38s with triple charges in the lot!

Example, a double charge of powder in a shotshell and the wad does not fit. Forgo the wad, it must be there. Load and crimp. Bang, the barrels blow off for to much pressure. I can't get a Win 209 primer, I use someone elses. I can't get clays but I will use an equivalent. I don't bother to weigh the charge because the bushing says 18.5 gr. I will use some other wad and not the Winchester one. End result, one over pressure load that can distroy a shotgun.

Factory loads are test fired several times per lot. They are pressure tested. They are chronographed for consistency. They are patterned. They are loaded just ONCE. They have liability insurance!!!!!!

And the reload?............

It is no wonder that the firearm manufacturers will not warranty any firearm that has shot a reload!

The Lone Canadian,
Henry;)

PS: I HANDLOAD (weigh and check every round!) target munitions for my pistols and rifles.
 
Yup I hear ya Henry. Some of the topics on various reloading forums scare me! Will never fire handloads by anyone but mine. I load several thousand rifle rounds/year and yes time consuming but I to do weigh each one...but most oten one cannot get enough powder in a metalic centre fire rifle casing to do a good bolt action harm. But if the WRONG powder should be intentionally or accidentally used then dire results might be in order. Handgun really scares me as a double charge with powder such as Bullseye is hardly noticable to the eye. Happy loading!

Ted
 
hnachaj said:
No, it means that you must be carefull reloading as a double charge is something tha can easily happen! Just about all firearms manufacturers do not warranty ANY firearm that shoots a reloaded shell! I have seen commercially reloaded pistol ammo with a triple charge detonate a revolver. There were other loaded 38s with triple charges in the lot!

Example, a double charge of powder in a shotshell and the wad does not fit. Forgo the wad, it must be there. Load and crimp. Bang, the barrels blow off for to much pressure. I can't get a Win 209 primer, I use someone elses. I can't get clays but I will use an equivalent. I don't bother to weigh the charge because the bushing says 18.5 gr. I will use some other wad and not the Winchester one. End result, one over pressure load that can distroy a shotgun.

Factory loads are test fired several times per lot. They are pressure tested. They are chronographed for consistency. They are patterned. They are loaded just ONCE. They have liability insurance!!!!!!

And the reload?............

It is no wonder that the firearm manufacturers will not warranty any firearm that has shot a reload!

The Lone Canadian,
Henry;)

PS: I HANDLOAD (weigh and check every round!) target munitions for my pistols and rifles.
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I had heard on another forum that that the handloads were up to spec. The problem is with a design flaw with the CG.
 
Certainly things can go wrong with handloads and sometimes there is no way to over-estimate some individual's capacity for idiocy or carelessness too. On the other hand, I really don't agree that manufacturers should have a blanket policy of not fulfilling a warrantee on a shotgun that fires reloads. For one thing reloading is an activity engaged in by many in the shooting clay sports and well known to be so. For another, such a policy ignores the circumstances in which the failure is due to an imperfection in the firearm. Of course, they certainly shouldn't be responsible for bad practice on the part of the shooter. But they shouldn't be able to slide out of situations in which they have done a bad job either.
 
There was a report made by staff of the shooting range. It was unscientific and was short on some facts. The design is sufficiently strong to withstand the Italian proof tests which is 1.5X maximum pressure. North American firearms are not proof tested! Some are tested for grouping or barrel convergence but not pressure.

There are too many variables in reloads for ANY manufacturer to warranty their firearms. There is no controlled spec or quality control for the reloader, as there is for a component maker or cartridge manufacturer.

Some years ago, a US manufacturer of primers had a primer problem that would burn the bolt face. They aknowledged the problem and paid up. In another case, the brass was not up to par and a number of bolt guns were seized. The brass manufacturer fessed up and paid. In no case was the firearm maufacturer responsible nor did they take any action.

Regards,
Henry;)
 
hnachaj said:
There was a report made by staff of the shooting range. It was unscientific and was short on some facts. The design is sufficiently strong to withstand the Italian proof tests which is 1.5X maximum pressure. North American firearms are not proof tested! Some are tested for grouping or barrel convergence but not pressure.

There are too many variables in reloads for ANY manufacturer to warranty their firearms. There is no controlled spec or quality control for the reloader, as there is for a component maker or cartridge manufacturer.

Some years ago, a US manufacturer of primers had a primer problem that would burn the bolt face. They acknowledged the problem and paid up. In another case, the brass was not up to par and a number of bolt guns were seized. The brass manufacturer fessed up and paid. In no case was the firearm manufacturer responsible nor did they take any action.

Regards,
Henry;)
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You make it sound like it was 100% reload problem. That was not the case, at least with the incident at the gun club at Quantico. Which was run by Marines with lots of experience. They came to the conclusion it was NOT the reloads. It was concluded that it was a DESIGN FLAW with the CG. They have banned CG firearms from their club. CG in turn is suing Quantico.
This may be bad news for CG. As all their dirty Landry may come out in Court.
 
hnachaj said:
North American firearms are not proof tested! Some are tested for grouping or barrel convergence but not pressure.
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This is wrong. SAAMI members proof test their firearms. CIP in Europe has more state involvement while SAAMI is primarily a manufacturer's association. There is disagreement between SAAMI and CIP on the manner of proof testing. SAAMI is not recognized in Europe but it is complete bulls**t to say that North American firearms are not proof tested.
 
Some years ago, a US manufacturer of primers had a primer problem that would burn the bolt face. They aknowledged the problem and paid up. In another case, the brass was not up to par and a number of bolt guns were seized. The brass manufacturer fessed up and paid. In no case was the firearm maufacturer responsible nor did they take any action.

Regards,
Henry;)[/QUOTE]

My Sako 222 was a victim of these faulty primers. Gas cutting damaged the bolt face and I almost lost an eye. Ammunition complany fessed up and payed out 500 bucks for the bolt replacement and gunsmithing of my Sako.
 
SAAMI sets standards for ammunition:
http://www.saami.org/publications/241SettingStandard.pdf

The same way CSA sets standards in Canada of which I am a voting member and member of several comittees.

They (SAAMI) do NOT set proof standards for N.A. firarms. You can check the website and there are NO proof standards as there are in Europe and provided by the CIP. They set ammunition standards that are amazingly somewaht lax: 90fps as a standard deviation, as an example. It is self regulated. This is contrary to what CSA does as it has members from govermental bodies, industry, industry professional associations, utilities and expert in the field.

North American manufacturers do not proof their firearms. They test fire them. Anybody see a proofmark on a Ruger, Remington ? Only if it was sold in Europe.

The marines that prepared the report, are not experts in firearm technology or ammunition manufacturing. They are experienced shooters and have NEVER worked in a scientific environment that was related to firearms.

Here is the VERY clear and proper response by CG:
http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=124&t=193421

Regards,
Henry;)
 
hnachaj said:
Anybody see a proofmark on a Ruger, Remington ?
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Those of us who do own Remingtons can see for ourselves. Look for an REP marking on the barrel. These are Remington proof marks.

P1011621.jpg


reming18.jpg
 
i had the chance to handle one at gobels in london, although this was quite a while ago now. doubtfull if they still have it. it was quite nice from what i can remember.

oh and if you read the remington site all their over unders are made in italy

quote from remington's premier site:

Meticulous craftsmanship. Sleek designs blending beauty and structural strength. Rugged dependability for hunting and competition. It’s what Remington and Italian gunmakers do best. And we’ve joined forces to create over and under shotguns that embody the finest of their traditions and ours, the Premier series.



Crafted in Italy to our specifications and destined for greatness in the field and on the course
 
I have a friend that supplies Remington with components. He specificaly told me that modern Remingtons are not proofed nor are any other American manufacturer's barrels. They do stamp their barrels to differantiate from copycats. I also know people that work at several American firearm makers. They test fire only or in the case of Ruger, they shoot three shot groups in each rifle so as to meet minimum groups standards. If Remington would of proofed their 870 and 1100 barrels, they wuld of not have had all those failures with steel shot. They would not of settled the class action suit in the 90s.

The Remingtons that are manufactured in Italy, must be proofed as per Italian and EC law.

Regards,

Henry;)
 
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