Removing Enfield No.4 Barrel?

[mmattockx]

I have an Enfield sporter that I want to rebarrel to .44 mag. Is there any great trick to getting the original barrel off, besides unscrewing a solidly torqued joint without twisting up the receiver?

EDIT - changed to rebarrel, not rechamber.... A new barrel will be installed, assuming the receiver survives getting the old one off.

Thanks,
Mark

 

[Potashminer]

You might be able to "re-chamber" to .44 Mag cartridge, but not many folk left that have the tooling to rebore that .303 to the correct bore size. I have pulled several milsurp barrels from WWI and WWII rifles - so far as I know, you need a good barrel vice - torqued up really good and mounted to something solid - then an action wrench that exactly fits that action - most of those rifle's receivers are made with a specific place to apply torque, or else they bend - then some have required a 4 foot or 6 foot snipe on the action wrench to make them break loose - can sound and feel as if you broke something when they let go. You CAN NOT let the barrel slip or turn - a buddy and I each have bent up, unusable, No. 4 receivers that someone thought it was possible to turn the action without using an action wrench - that did not work out well.

 

[woodchopper]

See my new post. I just did 2 yesterday.

I built a receiver block that holds the receiver, it is a fairly close profile and has a cutout for the mag cutoff lug.

if the barrel is not salvageable a big pipe wrench, but I am going to build a specific wrench for the Enfield barrel knox in the very near future.

 

[Potashminer]

Some of those milsurp rifles feel as if they were assembled in factory with "gorilla" strength using 13 foot long snipes - I had read that might have been done with a hydraulic thing, in some factories - and, a hundred years of never being removed usually does not make that job easier. Two kinds of action wrenches - the internal ones that lock-up on the bolt lug seats and you operate through the receiver - I think they are fine for installing a barrel, but I have never broke a milsurp one loose with that type - although I tried. Other kind of action wrench is like a "clamp" that goes around outside of the front receiver ring - no need to torque the clamp bolts too tight, but need them to be "tight enough" that the action wrench surfaces can not move or mar the receiver - if you clamp them "too tight", that "clamp" is probably tightening up that receiver to the barrel threads. Brownells used to sell a "kit" - an external action wrench body and various inserts that were used for various receiver types and sizes - not all are the same. I have a "home made" one for Enfield rifles - I also have the inserts for Enfield, Lee Enfield, various Mauser, commercial Remington and Winchester, etc.

 

[tiriaq]

In theory, a No. 4 barrel would go in hand tight 14 degrees off top dead center, and require 120 ft. lb. of torque to bring it to index. It can take a LOT more than that to remove.
Cutting a relief groove just in front of the receiver ring, to release torque makes a real difference. The barrel can be machined for a breeching ring if it is to be reused.
A barrel vise with good fitting blocks and resin or icing sugar should be used, along with a receiver wrench, properly fitted. It is easy to ruin a Lee Enfield receiver.

 

[Potashminer]

I am sure tiriaq has a LOT more experience at removing those barrels than I do, but I stole his "relief cut" idea for a Swede Mauser here - the inside of that barrel was totally pooched and there was no desire on my part to reinstall it, or to re-use the "stub" of it. So, I cut a slot in the barrel with a hack saw - all the way around - about as deep as the front receiver ring and leaving a sliver of barrel between the front of the receiver and my hacksaw cut. With that barrel in barrel vice and grabbing that receiver with an outside action wrench, it was about the easiest milsurp barrel that I ever removed.

 

[mmattockx]

You might be able to "re-chamber" to .44 Mag cartridge, but not many folk left that have the tooling to rebore that .303 to the correct bore size.

My apologies, that was the wrong word. I should have said rebarrel. I have no intention of using the original barrel, it will be replaced with a new one.

if the barrel is not salvageable a big pipe wrench, but I am going to build a specific wrench for the Enfield barrel knox in the very near future.

A big pipe wrench is fine with me, the barrel is scrap for my uses. I will see what I can work up for a receiver block.

In theory, a No. 4 barrel would go in hand tight 14 degrees off top dead center, and require 120 ft. lb. of torque to bring it to index. It can take a LOT more than that to remove.

Well, that is no problem with a big pipe wrench, but not destroying the receiver is the big issue.

Cutting a relief groove just in front of the receiver ring, to release torque makes a real difference.

Now that is an excellent suggestion, will see if that can be arranged with the machines and tooling available.


Mark

 

[hunter5425]

I took off a #1 barrel with a modified external wrench. I needed a 4 foot bar and a bit of dumb courage to get it off. There was no corrosion just PO'd gorilla tight.

 

[wannabe]

heat?

 

[tiriaq]

Relief groove - a hacksaw is all that is needed. Cut close to the receiver without marking it. Go all the way around. This lets the barrel shoulder spring back, barrel should come out easily. Only for No. 4, not No. 1. SMLE torques on the face of the barrel, not the shoulder. Usually SMLEs are easier to break down than No. 4s.
I don't bother with heat.
I used a 3' pipe wrench on a scrapper - just curious what it would take. Over 600 ft. lbs. Let go with a bang.
The relief groove also works on P'14 and M191 7 rifles.
An impact might break a barrel loose when pulling on a long snipe doesn't work. But be really careful. Easy to damage a receiver.

 

[I Dont Care About You]

You might be able to "re-chamber" to .44 Mag cartridge, but not many folk left that have the tooling to rebore that .303 to the correct bore size.

You would not be able to chamber a 44 into a 30 cal barrel. The reamer has a pilot at the front that fits into he bore.

Two kinds of action wrenches - the internal ones that lock-up on the bolt lug seats and you operate through the receiver

Seeing as the LE bolt lugs lock up at the back end of the receiver, that wouldn't be a very good idea.

A barrel vise with good fitting blocks and resin or icing sugar should be used

I like to wrap sticky note pads around the barrel. Works like a charm without any mess.

Relief groove - a hacksaw is all that is needed. Cut close to the receiver without marking it.

OR ......... one could just use a lathe to machine away the barrel shoulder?

 

[Potashminer]

A "head's up" to OP - those receivers can crack - not sure if the crack happens when the barrel is unscrewed or a replacement one is put on - is a "risk" to be assumed when pulling a barrel from a receiver, I think. I have a M1917 receiver with a visible crack on front receiver ring - I wanted the "High Standard" barrel for another receiver - so the crack was discovered AFTER I unscrewed the barrel - I have no clue when it cracked, as the crack would have been underneath the clamp of the receiver wrench. The receiver could have cracked when that barrel was installed or when I removed it - that was not the original barrel to that receiver.

 

[tiriaq]

Yes, one could use a lathe to machine the barrel shoulder away, or to cut a relief groove.
The barreled receiver will have to be set up in the lathe, which will take longer than just using the hacksaw.

 

[I Dont Care About You]

The barreled receiver will have to be set up in the lathe, which will take longer than just using the hacksaw.

Not really. I'd hold the barrel in the chuck and use a parting tool on the shoulder. The barrel wouldn't even have to be very well centered in the chuck and the action can just spin in space. The whole thing would take 2 minutes and a lot less effort than hacksawing carefully around the entire circumference of the barrel, while trying not to hit the action itself.

 

[CKC]

Interesting what your doing. Don't suppose you will make a video of the project for us less knowledgeable nutz.
Good luck bud.

 

[mmattockx]

A "head's up" to OP - those receivers can crack - not sure if the crack happens when the barrel is unscrewed or a replacement one is put on - is a "risk" to be assumed when pulling a barrel from a receiver, I think.

Thanks for that, I hadn't considered a crack opening. I will mag particle the receiver before and after to be sure nothing has gone awry.

Interesting what your doing. Don't suppose you will make a video of the project for us less knowledgeable nutz.

There won't be a video, but I might do a bit of a build thread with pictures if it turns out well. I will definitely take pics along the way to document it all. There should be videos all over youtube showing barrel removal and installation, all of them much better than what I would make, if that is what you want to see.


Mark

 

[CKC]

Thanks for that, I hadn't considered a crack opening. I will mag particle the receiver before and after to be sure nothing has gone awry.


There won't be a video, but I might do a bit of a build thread with pictures if it turns out well. I will definitely take pics along the way to document it all. There should be videos all over youtube showing barrel removal and installation, all of them much better than what I would make, if that is what you want to see.


Mark

Yeah im curios about the conversion but not knowledgeable in smiting.
Thanks

 

[RRCo.]

Not really. I'd hold the barrel in the chuck and use a parting tool on the shoulder. The barrel wouldn't even have to be very well centered in the chuck and the action can just spin in space. The whole thing would take 2 minutes and a lot less effort than hacksawing carefully around the entire circumference of the barrel, while trying not to hit the action itself.

This is the best way IMHO if the barrel is junk. Make the gap between the cutting tool and the front face of the receiver 1/32" or less. A few whacks with a wooden mallet or lead hammer usually unsticks them and then it's just hand work.

 

[tiriaq]

Not really. I'd hold the barrel in the chuck and use a parting tool on the shoulder. The barrel wouldn't even have to be very well centered in the chuck and the action can just spin in space. The whole thing would take 2 minutes and a lot less effort than hacksawing carefully around the entire circumference of the barrel, while trying not to hit the action itself.

If a tapered barrel can be held securely in the chuck, with the receiver hanging out unsupported in the open air, while a parting tool is used, then that will work. When I do it this way, I have mandrels I insert in the receiver, supported by the tailstock live center. No wobble, no chatter.