Removing the stock from barrel

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Sandrewb

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Was wondering if you took a sighted in bolt action rifle and removed the stock and either replaced it or put it back together would it still be sighted in. Would it make a difference if it was a scope or iron sights? :confused:
 
Yes - For the average hunting rifle, there would be a very good chance that the POI would change - perhaps a couple of MOA. A change of the order may not be noticeable with iron sights.
 
If you replaced the stock it is pretty much certain that the POA will change, with a well bedded stock and being careful with torque settings on the action screws the POA would likely remain unchanged or very close.
 
The Weatherby Carbine I bubba'd (see other post) definitely changed dramatically. I can send a pic of the sight in target, blew me away actually.

The stock was not only touching the barrel in numerous spots, but it was actually "grabbing" and exterting substantial pressure on it. Had my POI change over 2" each shot when barrel was warm.

When I free floated the barrel and chopped the stock, my POI on the first shot was over 10" low and 3" left of my original sight in. Unbelievable actually. The other thing I found out...try not to adjust scopes when it is -15 outside. They tend to get sticky and can be a real pain in the arse to fine tune - Hee Hee :p.
 
The key is, "Well bedded."
Quoting from Warren Page's book, The Accurate Rifle, he states the following.
"Bedding, the relationship between the metal parts and the stock-- is one of the two or three most critical elements in the precision balance we call accuracy."
I have stated on these threads many times that my rifles usually shoot better with pressure under the barrel, at the tip of the wood. This seems to be a controversial subject, so I will quote here from Warren Page's book again, regarding this subject.
He is describing stock making. "Then the barrel groove is cut out so that out at the fore-end tip enough wood is left so the forestock pushes up against the barrel with pretty fair pressure, enough to require significant effort to seperate barrel and forestock tip. The theory is that this pressure will cut the peaks and hollows off the vibrations of a relatively slender barrel and a relatively violent cartridge."
Among the many accomplishments of Warren Page, was his winning of the annual US National Match bench rest shooting competitions nine times.
Back to the original question, I have many times taken the stock off a scope sighted rifle, that had pressure under the barrel at the stock tip, and when the stock was replaced there was no discernable change in poi.
 
It can vary with factory stocks...
That is one advantage of having a rifle's action correctly glass bedded and the barrel floated... p.o.i. will not change. Just tighten the screws good and snug - no adjustments needed - no torquing required.
 
:agree:
H4831 said:
The key is, "Well bedded."
Quoting from Warren Page's book, The Accurate Rifle, he states the following.
"Bedding, the relationship between the metal parts and the stock-- is one of the two or three most critical elements in the precision balance we call accuracy."
I have stated on these threads many times that my rifles usually shoot better with pressure under the barrel, at the tip of the wood. This seems to be a controversial subject, so I will quote here from Warren Page's book again, regarding this subject.
He is describing stock making. "Then the barrel groove is cut out so that out at the fore-end tip enough wood is left so the forestock pushes up against the barrel with pretty fair pressure, enough to require significant effort to seperate barrel and forestock tip. The theory is that this pressure will cut the peaks and hollows off the vibrations of a relatively slender barrel and a relatively violent cartridge."
Among the many accomplishments of Warren Page, was his winning of the annual US National Match bench rest shooting competitions nine times.
Back to the original question, I have many times taken the stock off a scope sighted rifle, that had pressure under the barrel at the stock tip, and when the stock was replaced there was no discernable change in poi.
Click to expand...

:agree: THANK YOU I have been advising this for years and you wouldn't believe the looks I get, the bench crowd have everyone believing in floated, which does NOT work with most sporter weight bbls, FORE END PRESSURE will tighten almost all sporter weight groups!!!!!
 
Had a VLS .308 with the pressure spot in the forearm shooting 1" @ 100m.

Trying to get better result,I sanded the pressure spot to free floated the barrel...

Fvck after sanding the spot,it's shoot 1 1/2 and+...Redone the spot with Epoxy and

back to 1" @ 100m.Every rifle is DIFFERENT,now I know...
 
c-fbmi said:
:agree:

:agree: THANK YOU I have been advising this for years and you wouldn't believe the looks I get, the bench crowd have everyone believing in floated, which does NOT work with most sporter weight bbls, FORE END PRESSURE will tighten almost all sporter weight groups!!!!!
Click to expand...

Thank you very much for your reply.
And yes, I know all about the reception you will be getting. I get it too!
I was shooting during that great age of shootin after WW2 and petering out in the early 1960s. During that time there was no end of rifle shoots and competitions. It was considered that a pressure of about 6 pounds was about right on the average sporting rifle. It was common for target shooters to have a spring scale in their equipment, for testing the pressure of the barrel on the stock.
 
To answer the OP's question. My old early 1970's M-70 wouldn't change a hair after taking the stock off.
My present Kimber 8400 doesn't seem to mind having it's stock removed either.

If some fellas note a change of impact, then I would not argue the point and say probably each gun is different in what it will tolerate.

Both my M-70 and Kimber guns came from the factory with fore end tip pressure on the barrel. I decided to improve upon perfection with M-70 and free floated the barrel and bedded the action. The groups went from consistant nickel size to toonie size 3 shot groups!! In otherwards I should have left the dam thing alone.

So the Kimber will be left with its original fore end tip pressure.
 
c-fbmi said:
:agree:

:agree: THANK YOU I have been advising this for years and you wouldn't believe the looks I get, the bench crowd have everyone believing in floated, which does NOT work with most sporter weight bbls, FORE END PRESSURE will tighten almost all sporter weight groups!!!!!
Click to expand...

With respect to fore-end pressure, I don't think there is there is a "one size fits all" solution. Any given fore-end pressure can effect different loads positively or negatively in the same rifle, and barrel length and bore diameter effect stiffness as well as just it's contour. If you have a "go to" load that shoots better with fore-end pressure, stick with it, but more often then not I found that accuracy improved when the factory fore-end bump was removed, particularly with 700s, although the standard 700 doesn't use an excessively long fly weight barrel compared to some. I recall an old magazine article that suggested the use of adjustable pressure point screws in the fore-end, each placed at 22.5 degrees from the center of the barrel channel. A guy can drive himself crazy with this stuff, but I'll contend that the better approach is to remove the factory pressure point, see how the rifle shoots, then experiment with paper or brass shims to find the sweet spot, if free floating proves unacceptable. Having said that, I've been tempted to experiment with full length contact.
 
Boomer
Interesting ideas. My Kimber gives 1" to 1 1/4" size groups which is okay. The barrel on a Kimber, at least mine is very slender to keep the weight down. I would surmize then that the fore end pressure is there to help stabilize the barrel vibrations.

If I removed the pressure the accuracy could go either way. But as you have stated one could use shims to reinstate the pressure. Is my line of thinking making sense.?
 
What is your rifle for? Do you need more than MOA accuracy? If something works, don't fix it, that's the golden rule. Of course we shooters are by nature tinkerers, and if you remove the pressure point and your groups open up to 2 MOA, you know what you have to do.
 
Depends on the rifle. If the stock is pillar-bedded, the barrel floated, and the torque settings on the action screws consistent, I've not noticed any change in POI.
 
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