Repro caplock rifled musket question

[Claven2]

Picked up a gently used Zouave from a CGNer. It's an earlier beech stocked Armi Jager made 1863 Remington (often erroneously called a "zouave"). Still in excellent condition, luckily!

When I disassemble the gun and then re-assemble, if I screw the tang screw down hard before installing the bands, the barrel floats off the forend more than an inch.

What is the proper way to reassemble? Should I torque down the tang screw, then push down the barrel till it meets the stock and install the bands, or do I install the bands first and then tighten the tang screw until the bands are applying some pressure down on the barrel?

I'm afraid if I tighten the tang screw first, I'll have to bend the stock overly to install the bands and possibly damage the wood.

Anyone know?

For now, I've used the second method - seemed "safer".

 

[tiriaq]

No matter which sequence you use, there will be some tension between the stock and barrel when the bands are in place and the tang screw is snugged up. You don't want the tang screw loose, because the fit of the barrel breech and tang constitute the recoil shoulder. You might try some transfer agent, and see if there is a high spot toward the rear of the inlet, that is causing the muzzle to stand proud when the tang screw is tightened. But because this is a finished rifle, there won't be too much that you can do to adjust things. Personally, I don't think I would worry too much about it, particularly if the rifle shoots acceptably. Before the tang screw is pulled up tight, does the bolster fit properly against the lockpate, and is the tang flush with the inletting? If this is the case, perhaps the inletting at the breech end is a bit deep, and bedding compound would correct this.

 

[Claven2]

No matter which sequence you use, there will be some tension between the stock and barrel when the bands are in place and the tang screw is snugged up. You don't want the tang screw loose, because the fit of the barrel breech and tang constitute the recoil shoulder. You might try some transfer agent, and see if there is a high spot toward the rear of the inlet, that is causing the muzzle to stand proud when the tang screw is tightened. But because this is a finished rifle, there won't be too much that you can do to adjust things. Personally, I don't think I would worry too much about it, particularly if the rifle shoots acceptably. Before the tang screw is pulled up tight, does the bolster fit properly against the lockpate, and is the tang flush with the inletting? If this is the case, perhaps the inletting at the breech end is a bit deep, and bedding compound would correct this.

As near as I can tell, the bolster sits flat regardless which method I use. I suspect that if anything, the tang inletting is slightly too deep. Shouldn't be a huge issue though as if I use method No.2, then the bands are tight against the barrel shich is almost free floated a few thou and the tang screw stays nice and snug, though probaby it is not screwed in all the way.

You think this might be a problem, or should it be OK as-is?

 

[tiriaq]

I doubt if its a problem, but if the barrel is nicely seated with the screw snug but not torqued hard, I would be inclined to apply a bit of bedding compound under the breech of the barrel and tang. As long as the butt end of the barrel is making contact with the vertical face of the stock, movement under recoil shouldn't be a problem.

 

[Claven2]

I'm confident the barrel base is firmly seated against the recoil shoulder. I don;t really want to use any bedding compound for authenticity reasons, but I may undertake to install some shim stock under the tang depending how she shoots - haven't had her out yet.

Also, I want to dis-assemble the rifle again soon and apply some grease to the metal parts below the woodline so that I won't have to disassemble completely after each firing session.

Any suggestions on a grease to use that won't damage the stock and won't melt as the barrel heats up? (ie, crisco not an option for this application).

I was thinking white Lithium grease might work well - any comment?

 

[Claven2]

Just found something here: http://www.awod.com/gallery/probono/cwchas/acushot.html

There are two subtle problems common to both originals and reproductions. First, the barrel bands must be a little loose in order to get the best accuracy. If you have the clamping type bands, loosen the screws. If they are the solid type, be sure that they aren’t too tight against the wood. Shave the stock down if necessary. Second, the barrel tang must be solidly clamped into the stock by its screw. To check this, remove the bands and tighten the tang screw. If the muzzle lifts out of the stock as the screw is tightened, accuracy will be poor. Get some 1/64 birch plywood from the local hobby shop and make shims for under the tang. It may take only one, or several might be required. The muzzle should rest in the stock with the tang screw tight when you are finished. This is a commonly overlooked musket tuning trick.

So I guess I'd better fabricate some shims this weekend Shouldn't be too difficult.

 

[tiriaq]

The bullet from one of these is heavy, has a low muzzle velocity, and is in transit through the barrel for a relatively long period of time. I suppose any flex or vibration is going to affect accuracy.

 

[Claven2]

Most likely. I'm sure it functions as-is b/c the former owner shot it and it's none the worse for wear. That being said, I'd prefer to know it's set up properly.

 

[tiriaq]

Just a minor point - if the tang is shimmed up a bit, the bottom of the barrel breech is going to be lifted. that's why I suggested bedding compound - even if it isn't authentic. Just to fill any gaps.

 

[Claven2]

I don;t think it will be lifted. I'm only going to shim the back of the tang near the screw until the muzzle lays flat on the stock. the breech geometry should remain unchanged if I do it right. Definitely I don't want to bed it if at all possible.

 

[Skip]

Check the stock for warp - if all is happy the barrel/breech should sit nicely all along, if not, you probably have some woodworking to do. Possibility exists the tang was never bent to the correct angle for the stock (or the stock was never templated properly for the tang). Also possible the breech inletting wasn't cut deep enough.

 

[Claven2]

Skip - have you ever dis-assembled a zouave? It's impossible for the barrel to lay completely flat in the channel without the bands tensioning it down as the cleaning rod retaining spring pushes up on the bbl and leaves a few mm of gaping at the nose.

that being said, when my tang is tightened it lifts in excess of that at the muzzle. If I back off the screw, everything corrects itself. The problem is definitely one of shimming at the tang IMHO.

 

[Skip]

Skip - have you ever dis-assembled a zouave? It's impossible for the barrel to lay completely flat in the channel without the bands tensioning it down as the cleaning rod retaining spring pushes up on the bbl and leaves a few mm of gaping at the nose.

Sort of I have a pistol carbine built on a Zoave action, but its short - only one barrel band, and no cleaning rod spring (fixed pivotting rod). Your comment that the barrel raised an inch was what led me to suggest a warp or bad fit. That amount of distortion struck me as being excessive under the circumstances, which led to my comments about inletting fit or warp. (not having seen your gun...)

that being said, when my tang is tightened it lifts in excess of that at the muzzle. If I back off the screw, everything corrects itself. The problem is definitely one of shimming at the tang IMHO.

I'm not disagreeing with this at all, and what sounded like the solution. My concern from your description was that the angle of the tang or the angle of the grip was not right, or, the breech was not sitting down quite far enough in the breech inlet.

 

[tumbleweeds13]

If you need a reproduction bayonet for your Zouave, I have one. I bought it off E-bay thinking it might fit my Enfield musketoon, but I was wrong. I'm in Burlington. PM me if interested and we'll hook up. If it don't fit, no fault, no foul. Happy trails.

 

[Claven2]

Well I had another look tonight. I think the bedding is cut too deep at the back of the tang inletting. I'm glueing in a small beech shim. Once it cures, I'll black the tang and check for contact points. Then I'll slowly chisel shave them down till everything fits right.

Should work out OK - will advise.