Resizing 7.62x51mm Lake City cases for my .308 Win Savage?

greg11

greg11

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I have 200pcs of LC brass, 20 of which I made up for my Savage 10PC. They chambered only with a significant amount of force. Enough that I didn't even want to fire some of them.

I've been reading that military chambers can have quite a bit of extra room, and that sometimes the shoulders get pushed forward. This is what I think was my problem. I need to confirm with calipers when I go out to my reloading space later.

Just wondering though, am I screwed? Anyone else deal with this and resize this badboys back to SAMMI .308 spec?
 
I have FL resized some 7.62x51 IVI brass with a lee .308 win die without problems. Lust make sure you lube so that they don't get stuck in the die. After firing once in your savage, they'll be fireformed so you'll only need to neck size.

If you've already tried that, try seating a bullet without crimping, then chamber the cartridge in the gun, remove, and measure. Your overall length might be too long, and the force you exert closing the bolt might be pushing the bullet into the rifling and have nothing to do with the shoulder.
 
I've had this happen with brass fired out of a semi-auto before. What seems to happen is that the chambers are cut/reamed to max spec, and the brass expands (fire-forms) on firing.

Did you trim the brass to spec before you reloaded it?
 
If the brass has been originally fired in a large chamber (ie military), it can be difficult to get it sized to a commercial chamber. The issue is usually the dia of the case near the base, as the FL sizing die doesnt necessarily bring the case back to commercial spec.
 
Okay, I've found some of the issues and ironed them out, but I'm still stuck...

First, yes, some of my cases were too long. The Max Case Length is 2.015" and the "Case Trim Length" for .308 is 2.005". Some of my trouble carts were 2.030, so, way too long. My fault for not trimming this lot of brass. They are 1x fired, so I didn't think I needed to yet. My bad. I'm a dummy. LOL.

Next, it turns out that on 2-3 of the cases, I squat the case shoulders in the bullet seating die. I've seen this before as I just wasn't paying attention when I was putting my seating die in. Again, simple issue, my bad.

Now, here's what's BLOWING MY MIND....

I chose a bunch of fresh cases and measured them. I chose 4 of the shortest cases I had (~2.010") and I resized them. They still won't chamber. One chamber's silky smooth.

Every measurement I take, now that I'm finally paying attention, seems to be at or under specification according to the Hornady manual. Diameter of the cases are all within limits, lengths are 5 thou shorter than max.

I'm wondering if the shoulders are blown out, or if the shoulder angle (20 degrees) is greater than max. But I find it difficult to measure where the shoulder begins and ends.

Anyway, does anyone know what I'm saying? LOL...

I'm just so discouraged, because I never had a hitch with my .223 reloading. Even using LC 5.56 brass, not a hitch. Then this. ARGH....
 
Was this Lake City brass fired in another rifle?

When you full-length size the brass, do you have your dies adjusted so that the shellholder comes into solid contact with the sizing die?

There are three parts of the case that can touch the chamber and prevent the bolt from easily closing:

- the case mouth. While anything longer than 2.015" is technically illegal and therefore might be hitting, usually most chambers have 10 or even 20 thou more before contact happens.

- the shoulder. This is where contact is supposed to be made. This is the "headspace dimension" for a .308 and for other conventional rimmed bottleneck rifle cartridges.

- the base of the brass. If this is swollen, it can bind during chambering. Rather than a sudden solid "stop" as you close the bolt, this usually is felt as a "firming up then jamming".
 
The LC was purchased 1x fired from what I assume is military weapons, as the seller has a lot of it for sale.

I've set my FL die such that my shell holder makes solid contact with it. :p

Case mouth can't be it after measurements and your info regarding the up-to-20 thou "play" in some chambers. Definitely interesting to know that.

Shoulder: I'm beginning to think this is it. That they're pushed out, or that the angle isn't proper anymore. But shouldn't my FL sizer fix this?

I've measured case diameter all the way along the case, and it appears to be a couple thou inside of SAMMI specs, and thus, should be fine.

So, this leaves me with the shoulders as the culprit.
 
greg11 said:
Shoulder: I'm beginning to think this is it. That they're pushed out, or that the angle isn't proper anymore. But shouldn't my FL sizer fix this?
Click to expand...

Yes, the FL sizer should fix this.

It is possible that your FL sizer die or your shellholder are out of spec and not pushing the should back far enough even though you are (correctly) sizing as much as possible. The thing to do would be to measure one of these cases in a case headspace gauge (I have one, you could come by with a piece of brass and we could measure it).

If it turns out that your FL sizer isn't pushing the shoulder back far enough, one can try using a different FL sizer, or a different shellholder. Or you can lightly grind a bit of metal off one or the other of these (this will allow the case to be pushed a bit further into the sizing die).
 
I would go back and reset the resizing die. So you have screwed it in till it touches the shell holder. So I would keep screwing the resizing die it in till it starts to lift the press arm up. This is called overcaming I believe. That way you are sure of a full length resizing. Hope this helps.
If that doesn't work take some to Daniels, he will figure it out.
 
i have a savage 10 fp, i had to run my ivi brass through the lee die 2 times to get it resized , i had a very stiff bolt closure issue , my brass was trimmed to spec to,?? one thing i did realize that my savage had a tight chamber, perhaps cycling the lc brass in the die 2 times may help as well,
 
I have had the same situation a few times. Solved it by lubing the cases more than what they would ordinarily get, and then resizing them again with the die set so it actually bumps the shell holder. Has worked every time!

After your first firing, just size the brass normally.

Ted
 
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greg11 said:
I have 200pcs of LC brass, 20 of which I made up for my Savage 10PC. They chambered only with a significant amount of force. Enough that I didn't even want to fire some of them.

I've been reading that military chambers can have quite a bit of extra room, and that sometimes the shoulders get pushed forward. This is what I think was my problem. I need to confirm with calipers when I go out to my reloading space later.

Just wondering though, am I screwed? Anyone else deal with this and resize this badboys back to SAMMI .308 spec?
Click to expand...

FL size as stated by others and invest in one of these

w w w.crafm.com/index.php?option=com_paxgallery&task=view&gid=7&iid=295

I use military brass ivi and the above helps get the die set properly.
 
I had a similar issue with a 22-250. What I had to do was after the die made contact with the shell holder I screwed the die down another 1/4 turn. After that all the rounds chambered great.
 
I was just thinking, you might also try a small base die. This sizes down a LITTLE smaller than a regular FL die, and might help. Be warned, use lots of lube! Heavy military brass, large and out of spec, and a small base die can be tough. It flexes the whole top of my workbench (2x6s and 4x4s).
 
greg11 something else you can try - at several places near the base of a case measure the o.d. of a piece of brass that has been fired in your rifle (preferably one that was brand new before you fired it). This will give you an idea of how big your rifle's chamber is.

Then take the piece of sized-but-difficult-to-chamber LC brass and measure it in the same spots. See if it is bigger or smaller than the brass that was fired in your rifle. If it is bigger then that means that your particular FL sizing die is not reducing its diameter enough (in which case you can try a different doe or even a "small base" die, though usually that's not necessary nor recommended for a bolt gun). If the LC brass is no bigger in diameter than your once-fired-in-your-rifle brass, then you know that the LC case is not binding due to its diameter being too big (so you can rule out trying different dies)
 
tigrr said:
I would go back and reset the resizing die. So you have screwed it in till it touches the shell holder. So I would keep screwing the resizing die it in till it starts to lift the press arm up. This is called overcaming I believe. That way you are sure of a full length resizing. Hope this helps.
If that doesn't work take some to Daniels, he will figure it out.
Click to expand...

Over-camming is setting the die so that it BARELY touches the shellholder and then using the arm of the press to exert more pressure on the case than a human can just jamming the case into the die with brute force.

The arm of the press should stop short of a full throw when the die is set properly for over-camming. When some pressure is exerted on the arm you will feel resistance as the arm forces the case up into the die.

Try this and if it doesn't work, try some small base dies and use the same procedure.

Do not try over-camming with the inexpensive Lee press (can't remember the model but its the one that comes in the anniversary kit), you should have a press such as RCBS, Redding, Lyman etc......
 
First things first.
You need a headspace gauge or a case gauge to determine where the problem is.

The headspace gauge allows you to measure the distance from the datum line to the base.

You can then compare the length of a new unfired case to one that was fired in your rifle to one that doesn't fit your rifle and compare the difference.

A case gauge will show you min. and max. headspace as well as min. and max. case length but nothing more.

If you believe that your problem lies near the base should can soot a case under a candle flame and chamber it to see where contact is made in the chamber.
 
I would full length resize first in a standard die then resize again with a small base die and try chambering some then. As people have mentioned brass shot in military gun can be hard to size back down because of loose chambers.
 
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