Resizing a finished round?

[762mm]

Hello,

I am fairly new to reloading, but have managed to produce some nice ammo in various calibers so far. Today, my Lee .44 spl dies came in and I decided to reload some .44 spl cases for one of my revolvers (an old school/antique S&W).

Everything went fine and dandy, I resized each case and measured them all after resizing, they were all right at the "trim to" level (maning that they were at the recommended length). The brass was measured after resizing with an electronic caliper, by the way.

So, I make the batch (only 12 rounds, as I don't have extra brass for now) and they all turn out looking very good - they all crimp nicely and right at the same spot. So, I decided to see how they fit in the revolver - and surprise! Some of the ammo chambers nicely and falls on it's own all the way down the cylinder, while a few of the rounds hang and won't go down all the way. After I analyzed the problem, I came to the conclusion that some of the bullets were too thick and expanded the case near the mouth, right where the bullet would be underneath (I can see this, because there are tiny litle scratch marks that developped on the walls of these cases after I tried to force them in a few times).

My question is, can I run these fully assembled rounds through the Lee carbide resizer once again? (after I remove the decapping pin from the die, of course) This kind of sucks, as the ammo looks perfectly fine, minus the fact that some of it doesn't want to enter the cylinder. Thanks!

 

[tacticalII]

I'm new but I blieve a Lee factory crip die would solve your problems

 

[Baribal]

No, you can't. it wont go through all the way, anyways, and running loaded ammo thorough a die is not what we can call wise.
Anyways, even if you full resize, it won't work, unless you turn the cases, wich is not a common practice with handgun ammo.
Your loaded case, and the neck area, must not be bigger than 0.4565" (where the case ends, when a bullet is seated).

To resize a loaded round you have first to remove the bullet (inertia hammer works well) then, fire the primer in the gun, then deprime and resize. But as I said, if your loaded ammo is bigger than the above dimension, there something wrong with either the brass or the bullet. Or as said above, you crimp is not right, but check the dimension first.

 

[762mm]

I'm new but I blieve a Lee factory crip die would solve your problems

I don't have that, unfortunately.. I have a regular 3 die set (carbide). Anyway, I don't think that the crimp is at fault here... I think that some of the bullets were like one thousandth of an inch (or even less) larger in diameter than others, hence the larger case mouths.

If I could run it through the resizer safely, then maybe it would put everything back into proper dimensions.. but I just don't know if I should.

No, you can't. it wont go through all the way, anyways, and running loaded ammo thorough a die is not what we can call wise.
Anyways, even if you full resize, it won't work, unless you turn the cases, wich is not a common practice with handgun ammo.
Your loaded case, and the neck area, must not be bigger than 0.4565" (where the case ends, when a bullet is seated).

To resize a loaded round you have first to remove the bullet (inertia hammer works well) then, fire the primer in the gun, then deprime and resize. But as I said, if your loaded ammo is bigger than the above dimension, there something wrong with either the brass or the bullet.

Ok, that clears it up, thanks. I don't have the inertia bullet puller yet, but it's something I'll be getting soon. Btw, do you have to fire the primer? I've read other members saying that primers from bad rounds can be recycled with a decapper - I've decapped 3 bad rounds in the past and the primers fell out just fine (just like used primers do). They did not explode or anything... Is there anything to be concerned about when doing that? Thanks again!

 

[762mm]

Ok, I measured it... the cases that go in fine are .454 at the mouth, while the ones that jam (2) are .4555

Is it possible that such tiny tolerances would cause the round not to chamber?




P.S. I just tried to re-crimp the two defective rounds a little tighter, but it's still a no go... One of them can be forced down, but the other one still sticks out about 0.088 of an inch (out of every chamber). Bad bullet, maybe? They're Keith 245 gr lead semi-wadcutters (.430)... this is probably the tightest tolerances I've ever heard of, lol!

 

[daBear]

A lee factory crimp/sizer die is ideal in this situation as it is meant to fully size loaded ammo. Best $20 you'll ever spend. Your problem is very common with new loaders and revolvers. In fact too much crimp will swell the case mouth and stop the round from easily fully seating in the cylinder. Unless you are using full power loads, you dont need a heavy crimp, just enough to hold it in place.
dB

 

[762mm]

A lee factory crimp/sizer die is ideal in this situation as it is meant to fully size loaded ammo. Best $20 you'll ever spend. Your problem is very common with new loaders and revolvers. In fact too much crimp will swell the case mouth and stop the round from easily fully seating in the cylinder. Unless you are using full power loads, you dont need a heavy crimp, just enough to hold it in place.
dB

Thanks! I will be on the lookout for a factory crimp die then. I have a .38 spl also, but haven't tried my .38 ammo yet in that revolver. Maybe I should... for all I know, those might be all fked up too.

Damn... Just as I thought that I pretty much had it figured all out (all the basic reloading business, I mean), there's still more to learn.

So, how does one use a factory crimp die? do you run your rounds through it AFTER you seat it with the normal seater/crimp die? Also, I am making VERY light loads for that .44 spl, as my revolver is pretty ancient (4 gr of Unique tops, not more). Is the factory crimp die still a good idea under these conditions or is it gonna perhaps crimp a little too much? thanks again, your help is much appreciated!

Edit: After a bit of Googling, I pretty much answered my own questions... and yes, I believe that you guys are right, the factory crimp die is what I really need here. I will put the "defective" rounds on the side for the time being and order some factory crimp dies for both my revolver calibers, then run whatever is screwed up through the factory crimp dies for a final resizing... Thanks for all your input!

 

[ben hunchak]

The sizing die just might work as it may size the bullets as well as the case mouth down to where it will fit(chamber), really a partial size at this point isn't a whole lot diff. then a tapered crimp. I use this same die in some of my BP loads to remove the bell on the finished round.

 

[H4831]

I had the RCBS trim die in 243, where you stuck the case full into the die, then filed off whatever stuck up.
The die was hard as glass, so it couldn't be filed and it wouldn't hurt the file. It was a full length sizing die, and could be used to size a loaded round. A factory load would just nicely go in it, without force.
Running the loaded rounds through it guaranteed they would fit the chamber. I think at some time most of us have inadvertantly bulged the neck or shoulder a bit while seating, and going through the sizing die after loading just made sure they would fit the chamber.
This would be ideal for the original posters problem.

 

[hitch.bd]

I don't have that, unfortunately.. I have a regular 3 die set (carbide). Anyway, I don't think that the crimp is at fault here... I think that some of the bullets were like one thousandth of an inch (or even less) larger in diameter than others, hence the larger case mouths.

If I could run it through the resizer safely, then maybe it would put everything back into proper dimensions.. but I just don't know if I should.



Ok, that clears it up, thanks. I don't have the inertia bullet puller yet, but it's something I'll be getting soon. Btw, do you have to fire the primer? I've read other members saying that primers from bad rounds can be recycled with a decapper - I've decapped 3 bad rounds in the past and the primers fell out just fine (just like used primers do). They did not explode or anything... Is there anything to be concerned about when doing that? Thanks again!

I had a struck primer that did not fire in a .308 round. I pulled the lead and domped the powder and tossed the brass into my spent brass bucket. 2 days later I was reloading went to deprime and " KA####INGBANG " my ears had a ringing in them for the rest of the day. you do not want this believe me.

 

[Ganderite]

I had the same problem once on a batch of 45 ACP. Did not want to pull over 1000 rounds. I discovered that if i ran them into a 6.5x55 sizing die set at just the right height, the gentle taper of the die sized the top end of the 45 round just enough.

maybe a 308 die would do the same thing for the 44?

 

[tjhaile]

Perhaps some of your bullets are slightly oversized, and this is causing case mouths to bulge out slightly. I agree that the Factory Crimp die is probably your best bet.

Out of curiosity, what model is your .44 Special?

 

[Baribal]

P/M me if you want the SAAMI and CIP spec sheets for the .44 S&W Special. It contains both the cartridge and the chamber drawings. This may help you understanding wich loads fit and wich won't.

 

[Al-Sway]

No, you can't. it wont go through all the way, anyways, and running loaded ammo thorough a die is not what we can call wise.
Anyways, even if you full resize, it won't work, unless you turn the cases, wich is not a common practice with handgun ammo.
Your loaded case, and the neck area, must not be bigger than 0.4565" (where the case ends, when a bullet is seated).

To resize a loaded round you have first to remove the bullet (inertia hammer works well) then, fire the primer in the gun, then deprime and resize. But as I said, if your loaded ammo is bigger than the above dimension, there something wrong with either the brass or the bullet. Or as said above, you crimp is not right, but check the dimension first.

This is not all correct. You can try to resize loaded rounds; there is nothing inherently dangerous in this. However, the carbide sizer die is a ring and is not likely to size down the neck of the loaded round, perhaps a little more downstroke on the crimp die would do it.
If they won't seat in the cylinder (did you try them in all the chambers, because it might be a difference in the chambers more than your loaded rounds).

If you decide to pull them, certainly pull the bullets. There is no need to fire the primers; a waste of a good primer. You would have to remove the decapping pin, but you could also decap the live primer and use it again. Go slow and there is no danger.

 

[Dogleg]

More than a few hard to chamber rifle loads have found their way through Redding body dies. Just thought I'd throw that out there and see how many people panic.
For handguns, the Lee carbide factory crimping die will take care of the occasional "ooops"

 

[jimbubba]

I once made up a bunch of 357 that were hot enough that they worked out of the case on recoil enough to jam the cylinder from turning.I had to pull 200 or more rounds apart.I borrowed a kinetic puller from a friend and still have that one,distorted as hell.I bought my friend the new one.

Do NOT try to resize loaded rounds!~!

You may be able to force them into your revolver cylinder ,fire them,then reload them.You can use a fair amount of manual-not mechanical,ie,do not use a hammer!-force to get slightly over size rounds into a revolver cylinder.They may be abit of a chore to extract too.

If the bullets you are using are that out of spec,ditch them,find a different supplier,or get a swager to resize the bullets( I am assuming they are lead,not jacketed).

If you dismount ammo and punch out the unfired primers,do not try to re use them.You have already slightly crushed them on insertion,and damaged them oh so slightly on removal.Primers are too cheap,important,and delicate to try to re use.

Been reloading since 1984 and still have both eyes and all my fingers.

 

[762mm]

Thanks guys for all the input. Here's some updates on my situation:

- Just ordered Lee factory crimp dies from a guy in the States. The dies should be here within a week or so, judging by my past experience with him.

- I also just received case trimming supplies and a Lee pilot for the .44 special. I bought some brand new Remington .44 Magnum brass a while ago and today I've had a chance to trim it down to .44 spl length. I then loaded the rounds with .44 Horandy lead bullets (180 gr cowboy bullets) and everything worked out 100% perfect. Every single one of my 6 test rounds slides easily into the cylinder and none of the cases are deformed. They all look like factory ammo, plus the trimmed .44 magnum brass seems much thicker than the reused .44 special brass.

*The other bullets were loaded into fired/used Winchester .44 spl cases. The bullets in question seem to be 245 gr Keith (lead semi-wadcutters). I got a few of them along with a couple of .44 spl cases from the gentleman that sold me my .44 spl/russian revolver recently. The Keith bullets are .432 in diameter, while Horandy bullets are .429, which may be why cases get deformed with the Keiths.

Baribal: thanks for the offer, but I already have the necessary info on the .44 S&W special from my Lyman reloading manual (they actually cover this particular caliber in a lot of detail). The fact that I was able to successfully trim & reload some .44 magnum brass into .44 spl proves that the fault is not with my reloading, but rather has something to do with the bullets or maybe the used brass... Anyway, factory crimp dies are on their way.

And finally... the iron in question is a S&W First Model DA in .44 Russian/.44 Special, circa 1890 or so. The gun is in a near perfect shape and can chamber .44 spl due to it's longer 44-40 cylinders, but needs reduced loads (hence the light Horandy bullets I bought to reload it combined with small amounts of Unique). Picture:

 

[corney]

If you decide to pull them, certainly pull the bullets. There is no need to fire the primers; a waste of a good primer. You would have to remove the decapping pin, but you could also decap the live primer and use it again. Go slow and there is no danger.

This is good info! I did this with about 500 rounds of 38's that I had reloaded. They fit in the chambers of one of my 38's but not others because they were not sized enough. Didn't have the gun that they were fire formed in anymore.

Primers are hard to get now and didn't want to waste them.

 

[Slavex]

No, you can't. it wont go through all the way, anyways, and running loaded ammo thorough a die is not what we can call wise.

um, what? you've heard of the Lee Factory Crimp Die right? and why would it be unsafe? you know that most commercial ammo is run through a sizing die after the bullet has been seated and if needed, crimped. Just as they (omg) tumble their live rounds to remove blemishes from the cases

Anyways, even if you full resize, it won't work, unless you turn the cases, wich is not a common practice with handgun ammo.

yes it will work just fine, unless his sizing die doesn't permit the full insertion of the round

Your loaded case, and the neck area, must not be bigger than 0.4565" (where the case ends, when a bullet is seated)..

To resize a loaded round you have first to remove the bullet (inertia hammer works well) then, fire the primer in the gun, then deprime and resize. But as I said, if your loaded ammo is bigger than the above dimension, there something wrong with either the brass or the bullet. Or as said above, you crimp is not right, but check the dimension first.

wow, seriously? what planet do you reload on? First off, you don't need to pull anything, secondly you're advice to fire the primed case would be criminal unless he drives to the range to do it. Thirdly even if he did follow your needless advice, there is no issue in depriming live primers, though even if he did pull the bullet, I'm not sure why you'd suggest depriming the case before resizing it, talk about doubling up a waste of time.

 

[redbirddog]

I had the same issue once. I fixed it by reducing my tapper crimp. Adding to much crimp will bulge out the case.

Good ideas about running the finished rounds through the 243 and 6.5. Im going to look into that. Beats breaking part good ammo.