restoring a milsurp Question ----- tung oil or BLO?? ?

NB.nagantsniper

NB.nagantsniper

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in the process of restoring 2 sporters to milsurp looks.

1 is a p14 ( super grungy stock finish but cleaned up ok so far) other is a m10 ross .( stock currently being lenthened to milsurp specs by member flyingpig )

question ...........will i burn in milsurp HELL if i try tung oil on the stocks ??

i am sure i can find boiled or raw linseed oil, but have tung oil ( 1850 brand ) on hand .

asking ---------all advise most welcomed .

from don / nb.nagantsniper
 
I have finished these two stocks as a comparison project. The top stock was done with two coats of 50/50 BLO and turpentine. Then another six coats of BLO. The bottom stock is done with two coats of pure tung oil and citrus solvent at 50/50. It then got another seven+ coats of pure tung oil. The 'drying' time is longer with the tung oil but the finish is by far the better of the two. It feels right, is easy to touch up if dinged and can be worked with in the house without stinking everything up. Do not think that the tung oil you get from any big box store is even close to pure tung oil. The mix they sell is a chemical brew of little use. I have other stocks that will be done with the tung oil as it is that much better even if the results take a bit longer.

ps. Pure tung oil was/is the preferred finish on the Garand. BLO is just a quick, cheap, inferior substitute.
 
FALover said:
I have finished these two stocks as a comparison project. The top stock was done with two coats of 50/50 BLO and turpentine. Then another six coats of BLO. The bottom stock is done with two coats of pure tung oil and citrus solvent at 50/50. It then got another seven+ coats of pure tung oil. The 'drying' time is longer with the tung oil but the finish is by far the better of the two. It feels right, is easy to touch up if dinged and can be worked with in the house without stinking everything up. Do not think that the tung oil you get from any big box store is even close to pure tung oil. The mix they sell is a chemical brew of little use. I have other stocks that will be done with the tung oil as it is that much better even if the results take a bit longer.

ps. Pure tung oil was/is the preferred finish on the Garand. BLO is just a quick, cheap, inferior substitute.
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But he is not restoring a Garand. Linseed oil is the correct finish on a P-14 or a Ross.
 
FALover; BLO is just a quick said:
I thought you were a FAL lover? Linseed oil is the approved finish/touch up for the C1A1 with tung being second choice.

Seriously though, both of those stocks look great.
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Plain advice for Brit/Cdn wooden stocks is raw linseed oil. For US Garand stocks initial treatment was by immersion in pure tung oil followed by in service maintenance using raw linseed oil as for other US small arms. I've never seen a military technical manual that mentioned boiled linseed oil, but I have read a number that cite raw linseed oil.
A lot of the tung oil products that you see for sale contain a drying agent. Pure tung oil is different. As the big white rooster said to the little chicken, "boy I said tung oil what comes from the nuts of the tung tree, not tongue oil. Now listen up boy so's you'll know the difference next time".
 
You can get pure Tung oil from Lee Valley (google it), it really isn't that expensive, and a 1 litre bottle goes a long, long way... Which is why I can't remember what I paid for it.

But for the Canadian stocks, if you want to stay "true" - it's either raw linseed oil or BLO...

Tung was used in the US and throughout the East Block, but the Empire mostly used Linseed of some form or another. The rest of Europe did, well, whatever that particular country was doing at that time.

Which is a shame, because I have a No1 Mk III that just fell into my lap that's going to need de-Bubba-izing, and as a "woodwork" purist I much prefer Tung. As a "milsurp" purist, I'll end up using BLO.

Either way, make sure you get as pure a product as you can. The "polymerized" or whatever they call it Tung is a chemical soup and, long term, hard on the wood. If you want it to last another 100 years, pure Tung, or pure BLO, is the way to go. It takes 24-48hrs between coats to set (depending on climate), and up to a year to fully cure, but 100% worth it. And you don't have to wait for it to fully cure before shooting.
 
A couple of questions-
is varasol the same as turpentine?
when you are using Tung oil why did you not mix the tung oil with varasol rather than citrus solvent?
where can I find citrus solvent? I haven't seen it at Home Depot. Where should I expand my search to for this stuff?
Thanks,
Dave
 
Varsol is produced from Crude Oil. Turpentine is produced from Trees. They are NOT the same. The British call Varsol "turpentine substitute".

Linseed oil is produced from FLAX, which has been grown all over Northern Europe at least since the Neolithic period. Its wood-preservative qualities have been known for several thousand years. This is why Linseed Oil, either Raw or truly Boiled, became the STANDARD stock finish for firearms for centuries. It remains the standard on quality guns and rifles.

TUNG Oil is comparatively recent, used heavily by the American ordnance department. It is dependent upon the importation of Tung nuts from Asia. As a wood sealant, it originated in China. During WW2, the US Ordnance department very nearly had KITTENS after the Japanese seized nearly all sources of the stuff.

For a Ross, Lee-Enfield or Mauser: Linseed Oil.

For an M-1: Tung oil.

Mauser/Oberndorf still sells their distinctive red Schaftoel (stock oil). It is made from Linseed Oil.
 
recce said:
I thought you were a FAL lover? Linseed oil is the approved finish/touch up for the C1A1 with tung being second choice.

Seriously though, both of those stocks look great.
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All we ever used on our FNC1A1 rifles at the battalion was out of a can of 10w30. :)

Ha ha ha ha that's all I can remember from 30 years ago

Cheers, Barney
 
smellie said:
Varsol is produced from Crude Oil. Turpentine is produced from Trees. They are NOT the same. The British call Varsol "turpentine substitute".

Linseed oil is produced from FLAX, which has been grown all over Northern Europe at least since the Neolithic period. Its wood-preservative qualities have been known for several thousand years. This is why Linseed Oil, either Raw or truly Boiled, became the STANDARD stock finish for firearms for centuries. It remains the standard on quality guns and rifles.

TUNG Oil is comparatively recent, used heavily by the American ordnance department. It is dependent upon the importation of Tung nuts from Asia. As a wood sealant, it originated in China. During WW2, the US Ordnance department very nearly had KITTENS after the Japanese seized nearly all sources of the stuff.

For a Ross, Lee-Enfield or Mauser: Linseed Oil.

For an M-1: Tung oil.

Mauser/Oberndorf still sells their distinctive red Schaftoel (stock oil). It is made from Linseed Oil.
Click to expand...
Tung oil has been used as a wood preservative in excess of two thousand years. You are correct with the military uses and for period correctness linseed oil is true to the rifle. However the linseed oil may have been pure flax oil which has a long 'drying' time. BLO is the more recent development as it allowed a faster curing time and eliminated the sticky residue of the raw flax oil. The amount of oil needed is minimal as once the thinned oil has been applied as a base only a small amount is needed for any other coats.I have used less than 250ml to finish 2 stocks. Amazon,Lee Valley Tools or artantiquequebec.com (my source) have a variety of drying oil finishes.I have had discussions on 'original' as a whole and from the purist point of view the item was only original once. From a restoration point you use the best you can get to do the work. The materials of days gone by can be difficult if not illegal to produce so substitutes are used. Anywhoo... however you proceed here's to a successful restoration.
 
Ive used BLO and Behrs tung oil on a few stocks, they all came out very nice. I found that some wood seems to accept the oil better, and dries faster than some others, but you really can't tell unless you try. Overall after your done I doubt anyone could tell what product you used to refinish the stock.
 
At the risk of breaking wind during the church sermon, you can get a very good rendition of a military stock finish by using Minwax Tung Oil Finish which does contain a drying agent. I've used this on military stocks which required a complete refinish and it turns out quite nicely. After the old finish is removed, oil is out of the stock and any steaming of dents/filling of bad gouges is done, I use an alcohol based leather stain for color, then apply the Minwax finish. You can also precede the Minwax finish with an application of a clear stain/sealer which will bring out the contrast in the grain. A couple of coats is normally good as you don't want the stock to get too shiny.

If totally refinishing an old stock or finishing a new one, like the Boyds Garand stocks, the use of ultra fine sandpaper should be avoided. 120-180 grit is the finest I use. A combination of too fine sanding and repetitive applications of hand rubbed BLO will produce a finish "as shiny as a whore's belly on Christmas Eve", as the old Army saying goes. it looks very purdy, but it ain't military. A lot of us do try the exercise of pimp shining military stocks so they look attractive, and I confess to doing this a few times 40 yrs ago or so when I was heavy into the use of Tru-Oil on sporter stocks. I've even kept a M1917 Enfield stockset as a reminder not to do this again. Some day I'll strip this one down, apply some stain and get it back to looking like a soldier.

With used military stocks, especially original collector grade pieces, less is usually more. I normally rub a new one down with pure tung oil or raw linseed which conditions the wood and will clean off some degree of surface crud. Make sure the tung or raw linseed is wiped off the surface of the wood so that it doesn't have a chance to dry there. You want the oil to dry in the wood, not on top of it.
 
Tung oil has to be applied correctly. It gets rubbed in as opposed to 'painted' on, using a clean lint free cloth every time in several thin coats with 24 hours drying time between coats vs the "it doesn't matter much" of BLO. Tung oil gives a hard, waterproof, shiney, finish that doesn't need more once it's done.
BLO gets applied with a rag and gives a flat, not waterproof finish that requires re-doing fairly often. Not every day, though.
As mentioned, Canadian rifles had BLO. Don't think Tung oil was known in North America at the time. Wouldn't bet on that though.
 
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