Restricted Luger P.08 quest

Nabs

Nabs

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Hello again CGN,

I figured this post would merit my fellow collectors on the Milsurp board then over at the Pistol forum where the talk seems to always stem around modern hand guns.

I am on a personal quest, a quest for a Luger. Many of you are well aware of the prohibited class and how unfortunate firearms, such as the Luger P.08, have been lumped in there. Many of these Lugers are in good to excellent condition as well.

For quite some time I have wanted to obtain a Luger but the staggering asking price for the artillery model and other restricted ones far exceeds my paycheck. The regular model German Luger would be my first choice. It also would have been a primary candidate for what my great grandfather would have been issued during WW1 so this firearm, along with my Mauser C96 are be extremely special to me.

I have, therefore, considered an interesting option. I have decided to find a WW1 dated, German marked, Luger that has a poor to fair bore and is fair to good condition overall. I wouldn't mind mis-matched parts as long as they are all Imperial German origin. I would prefer an Erfurt or DWM (Erfurt is first priority) marked 1914 dated Luger.

I have a gun smith ready to go with a new barrel replacement to put the old girl into the restricted category. I would hate to put a new barrel on a German luger that already has a good bore but I am willing to travel down this path if there is no other choice.

So how about it, does anyone have a beat up old Luger hiding in their gun cabinet that they would be willing to part with for a reasonable price ? If you do, please do not hesitate to contact me via PM and we can work out the hard details.

I will be posting a WTB ad in the pistols forum but I wished to generate some ideas and leads in the milsurp board first. I hope you all don't mind.

Thank you fellow CGNers!
 
Believe me, Nabs, I know the problems, having attempted for several years to get by on a disability pension that actually paid less than Welfare!

Your alternatives are, of course, a Swiss but they are 2 grand and up. Or you might find a German/Finn with that nice 118mm barrel. I did see a Commercial Navy with a 6-inch barrel, several years ago, but it was well into 4 figures. There were other contracts for slightly-long barrels as well but NONE of them are easy to find, much less to pay for.

You are probably on your best path here: find a shot-out original and rebarrel with a 106mm tube. The UGLY part is that the 102mm take-off barrel IS the Prohibited Weapon itself, not the gun. But this is what you are buying, so it might make a good court case, if you want to pursue it: property is not criminal, only the USE of it is criminal. And your property is yours and you may NOT be deprived of it unless you have committed a CRIME with it.... and the legal definition of a criminal ACT does not include mere possession of an article: it includes only the USE thereofas a tool of violence or intimidation. In this particular case, the Government is stepping outside of the Common Law which actually binds IT..... and they do not have the power to do this. You CAN fight the Government. I have done it, a number of years ago when the police illegally refused to register a handgun to me. Do you have any idea how LOUD a Provincial Supreme Court Judge is allowed to SCREAM in his own courtroom? Scared the crap outta me, but I had my registration the next morning, 15 minutes before the police station opened!

Ugly part about this is that 90% of Lugers were made with 4-INCH barrels: 102mm. The *&%$**& law was deliberately written so as to ban as many collectable guns as possible.... and our national police force (which the Canadian Constituion says we don't have) is enforcing this as if it were Holy Writ, just for a chance to shaft a few more people. And then they wonder why nobody loves them any more!!!!! If they want a bit of respect, they should try getting to a hold-up at a Legion Bingo in less than 2 hours, even if it IS 8 blocks away and they have only 20 cops in a town of 3,000. If they were to put the Crooks in JAIL, they wouldn't have to spend so much time screwing the rest of us.... unless they really enjoy what they're doing.

Good luck!
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I don't think your quest is impossible. The tough part is finding a 12(6) buyer that is willing to jump thru all the hoops required. I find most don't want to be bothered with the hassle.

Is your gunsmith willing to act as a sort of broker to pay and take possession of the 12(6) gun from the buyer, then sell to you at an agreed upon price + the cost of the new barrel and installation?
 
All you really need is a brownells barrel stretcher and reducer. This way you can go from 4" prohib to 6" Navy and then to 8" Artillery and back to prohib in just a matter of minutes.

:D
 
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The gun smith (ellwood epps) has been informed and is ready to accept the Luger upon arrival: I pay the $ amount and shipping to the seller with the prohibited luger and he ships it under his name to the gun smith, the Luger is then de-registered, the barrel replaced and and the original destroyed(really sad moment), and the Luger re-registered under the restricted licence and my name. This is the process that was explained to me by my gun smith.

Right now I have three potential Lugers on the go, we'll have to see how things play out.

As for barrel stretching, is this really safe ? I have toyed with the idea before but it doesn't come off as safe or as strong. I don't think my gun smith has such a tool but I will inquire.
 
Nabs said:
I pay the $ amount and shipping to the seller with the prohibited luger and he ships it under his name to the gun smith, the Luger is then de-registered, the barrel replaced and and the original destroyed(really sad moment)
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Sad yes but the fact now that a collector can acquire a very collectable and prolific arm far outweighs the barrel change in my opinion. Much better to be altered and shootable then having to be deactivated or destroyed. :cool:

NEED pictures when its done, Im very interested in seeing how this turns out! Good luck.
 
Pictures definitely! The gun smith also offered to re-finish the bluing on the firearm so it matches the their bluing of the new barrel, for an extra cost. Might well be worth it so everything looks just fine.

Thinking about it some more, I think the only real issue here is, if I am correct, the seller (if it is a private sale), obtaining some sort of ATT for the prohibited firearm to be shipped to the gun smith. Two of the Lugers I am looking at are from actual gun shops so they shouldn't have a real issue with any transport papers. If worse comes to worse, I can always buy the barrel from my gun smith and have that shipped to the gun shop in question for re-work and re-registration and then have it shipped to my original gun smith for the finishing touches. Not the route I want to go but certainly another option.
 
Nabs said:
Thinking about it some more, I think the only real issue here is, if I am correct, the seller (if it is a private sale), obtaining some sort of ATT for the prohibited firearm to be shipped to the gun smith.
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There's no problem getting an ATT for a prohib handgun. You might be confusing this with the prohib rifle fiasco.
 
I've thought about this as well.

I really do want a luger some day, but the law is just ridiculous. Actually, it makes me angry just thinking about it to be honest.

I think in this case, it is fine to replace the barrel, I mean, what is the alternative? Eventually the whole gun would probably get destroyed. Keep us posted, hopefully it looks good when it's done! Too bad it won't really be authentic anymore though...

-Steve
 
This is the silly part: the only part of the gun which is actually Prohibited is the BARREL.

Remove the Prohibited BARREL and you have a collection of parts with a registrable frame.... and the SERIAL NUMBER by which it is registered is on the FRAME, not on the receiver.

Make it into a Carbine and it isn't even a Restricted any longer. That's legal; it has been done many times. I think about half the Carbines in Canada are fakes; I knew the guy who built them. Fortunately, they are easy to spot: an original Carbine did not have a date, nor did it have military acceptance stamps.

When the Registry came in, the authorities were offered help from the firearms-owning community. They refused because, of course, The Government Always Knows Best. What they know best is how to screw pople over.

There should be no trouble in getting an ATT to take the thing to the gunsmith, so long as it is delivered there by the current registered owner; he is the ONE person who can actually get an ATT to do this. What becomes of it there is between the gunsmith and the NEW owner and the registry.... and it is now RESTRICTED only.... unless you have made it into yet another Makarenko Carbine, that is!
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Nabs said:
The gun smith (ellwood epps) has been informed and is ready to accept the Luger upon arrival: I pay the $ amount and shipping to the seller with the prohibited luger and he ships it under his name to the gun smith, the Luger is then de-registered, the barrel replaced and and the original destroyed(really sad moment), and the Luger re-registered under the restricted licence and my name. This is the process that was explained to me by my gun smith.

Right now I have three potential Lugers on the go, we'll have to see how things play out.

As for barrel stretching, is this really safe ? I have toyed with the idea before but it doesn't come off as safe or as strong. I don't think my gun smith has such a tool but I will inquire.
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Nabs...hate to say it but you've been had...:D
 
Steve1987 said:
I've thought about this as well.

I really do want a luger some day, but the law is just ridiculous. Actually, it makes me angry just thinking about it to be honest.

I think in this case, it is fine to replace the barrel, I mean, what is the alternative? Eventually the whole gun would probably get destroyed. Keep us posted, hopefully it looks good when it's done! Too bad it won't really be authentic anymore though...

-Steve
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I know it won't be the real deal anymore but I would rather have one saved then one more destroyed 50 or so years down the road. I am not an advocate of re-finishing firearms but since the Luger's new barrel is going to be blued by the gun smith anyway, it won't match what bluing is left on the Luger so I might as well make it look nice if all she is going to be is a restricted Luger.

cantom said:
Nabs...hate to say it but you've been had...:D
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Had to try :D

smellie said:
There should be no trouble in getting an ATT to take the thing to the gunsmith, so long as it is delivered there by the current registered owner; he is the ONE person who can actually get an ATT to do this. What becomes of it there is between the gunsmith and the NEW owner and the registry.... and it is now RESTRICTED only.... unless you have made it into yet another Makarenko Carbine, that is!
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Chances are the Luger won't be coming from a person who lives down the street from my gun smith. Is the CFC really anal about prohibited firearms, such as the Luger, being mailed to a gun smith with the intention of having it re-registered as a restricted firearm ? I got my Nagant revolver in the mail from my gun smith no problem and no ATT needed so I am hoping something similar can happen here.
 
Every ATT I have every seen (Ontario) says both restricted and 12(6) prohib on it whether you actually have the 12(6) grandfathering or not. They don't care about prohib handguns.
 
I have received two ATTs (Manitoba) recently, both with my Prohibs included. This is really nice because we have matches in which you are REQUIRED to shoot Prohibs with certain targets. This is rough on the guys who aren't Grandfathered, but they can usually get a loaner for a shoot. Keeps them on the range, actively being used in SPORTING EVENTS which the Gummint swears on a stack of Bibles, Qurans, Tripitakas, Grimoires and so forth that they will not destroy, at least this week.

Don't really see any problem with having one sent to a gunsmith; that is generally accepted, even for such dangerous things as Lugers. If they then go to a new address, wearing a politically-correct barrel, then the Gummint simply should breathe a sigh of relief at the knowledge.

I just wonder when (and if) they intend to apply some of these laws to the Jamaican, Vietnamese, Tamil and other banger streetgangs in our big cities. But then, that might be 'racism'.
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Nabs, DO go for the refinish. These guns just were hardened so well and built so very tight that it is more than a bit rare to encounter a loose one. I have a Soviet-reissue 1938 that has been shot so much that there is hardly any rifling left, but it s still tight, even though mismatched. I also have a DWM 1916 which is in 98 to 99 percent factory trim; the thing is so beautiful that it could serve as a meditation piece.... and I am serious about that.

Let us know how this works out and let us know the cost. I am sure that more folk will want to do this, especially if the next election doesn't go our way.

We MUST bring this issue home to the majority of people who vote. The registry had cost $2 billion when we started making all this fuss. Nobody has mentioned that it has eaten most of ANOTHER billion SINCE then. The price tag now is closing $3 billion. Right now, I have a brother in the hospital, awaiting an MRI.... and no machine available for months. That $3 billion could have bought enough MRI machines to fill a football field AND operated them. This is how we bring the issue home to the 20% of people who 'don't care' because it doesn't affect them. It DOES affect them. If they open their eyes they will know that it is KILLING them..... and the Liberals and the NDP don't care.
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Dlask arms had some 107 luger barrels as did Barry at Bits n pieces. you can easily purchase a prohib but have the seller send it to the smith. after the conversion is done then do the transfer.

There are many out there, I have a few.
 
I have asked this before but probably missed the answer. WHY is a handgun EVIL with a 4 inch barrel and GOOD with a 6 inch barrel? Is there some mystical entity that inhabits short barreled handguns, but is incapable of demonizing ones with longer barrels?
 
John Sukey said:
I have asked this before but probably missed the answer. WHY is a handgun EVIL with a 4 inch barrel and GOOD with a 6 inch barrel? Is there some mystical entity that inhabits short barreled handguns, but is incapable of demonizing ones with longer barrels?
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That's how the Lie-beral Mind works that only promotes Fear and nothing Rational with their Agenda.
 
It is nice to know the shipping won't be a problem.

At the moment, I have my eyes on two Lugers, both early war and matching. My biggest concern during the re-finish at the gun smith is that the polishing will fade some of the markings. I don't know how careful my gunsmith will be when he goes to polish and re-blue the metal but it is the biggest concern I have so far.

I'm currently waiting to hear back from both of the sellers so I can pick one of the Lugers and move forward.


John Sukey said:
I have asked this before but probably missed the answer. WHY is a handgun EVIL with a 4 inch barrel and GOOD with a 6 inch barrel? Is there some mystical entity that inhabits short barreled handguns, but is incapable of demonizing ones with longer barrels?
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I don't understand it myself either. There is ~ half an inch difference between the old and new barrel on the Luger ? You certainly won't see thugs on the street running around with Lugers, as there are cheaper handguns to be had on the black market. Registering these and my other beauties makes me feel like the criminal on probation.

One of the biggest concerns, when I submitted my restricted license papers, was having to consent to an inspection by the RCMP. They haven't come yet but it keeps me on my toes that they might demand to inspect my collection when I am not here or otherwise. I have heard a few horror stories of people losing their collections because the Misses knew where they were and where the key was.
 
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