restricted newb, need AR15 thought's

hutchster

hutchster

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well i successfully completed the restricted course yesterday, now i just have to finish filling out the complete pal request form to get restricted added to my existing pal and i'll be set:)

i've had the hankering for an AR style rifle for a while now, but was limiting myself to non-restricted's so i wouldn't have to upgrade my licence, and by doing so was only really looking at the ar180b.

but after finally comparing an ar180b next to an ar15, there was no comparison, the ar15 just felt like a more solid rifle, and the fit and finish on the ar180b seemed lacking, enough so that the fact that the ar15 is restricted isn't enough to stop me from wanting it instead.

now that my mind is set free, and my eye's are opening to the restricted rifle scene, i'm a little confused by all the options available:redface:

i am planning on using my future rifle for informal target shooting at the range, basically bench based target shooting, no running and gunning for me yet, and i'm not sure on which barrel length to go with:confused:

i know the brandon range is limited to 200 yards max, and from what i understand, wolverine's range at virden goes out to 400 yards, so will a 24" barrel be better suited for those ranges, or is it overkill and just adding dead weight?

how do short barrels perform at those range's, say a 10.5 or 14"?

i've been cruising the cgn sponsors, and have sort of narrowed my search down to 2 stag rifles at armseast, the 3R and 6R, mainly because my rifle will be scoped, and i've heard that the fixed front post can obscure the sight picture depending on how low it's mounted, any thought's?

thanks
hutchster
 
Ar180shooter said:
With optics and a 16" barrel, you should be shooting MOA at 200.

But what do I know, I'm the guy who bought the Ar180 :p
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hehe:)

how do you like the ar180b compared to the ar15 series, besides the restricted/non-restricted aspect?

i have to hand it to the ar180b when it comes to stripping, it's just like the cz858, extremely simple, but the ar15 i played with wasn't too bad either:)
 
I'm kind of in the same place as you. I have my restricted license, but right now the only gun I have is a hunting rifle. I'm in no position to start looking to spend right now, but I can possibly look at getting an AR in a couple of years, so right now, I'm just trying to get my head around what's available, what's good and whether there are any rifle competitions I can enter with it. I've spent a lot of time at the Rock River site, for instance, and they look good. But I don't know what's expensive due to the name, what hits the perfect price:performance point, what's affordable and what's just cheap. I saw Blue Line's house brand and the price looks good, but there's another thread about them and nobody can tell me if they're any good. Similarly, the Norincos are a good price, but that metric threading issue probably reduces the customisation possibilities...

I mean, jebus: I used to think an AR was an AR. Now I'm totally confuzzled.
 
IMHO a 16" is the best do all barrel length. Short enough to use in vehicles and structures as well as maintaining enough velocity to be competitive in service rifle and have effective terminal effects on things tha require terminal effects.
 
hutchster said:
what's the cost/stress difference between making an ar15, and buying a complete unit?

any specialized tools needed to put these together?

hutchster
Click to expand...

Order this free catalog. They also have video on their website.

AR-15 Catalog
l_077100008_1.jpg

## 077-100-008
# Mfr:BROWNELLS
# Retail Price:$0.00
# Status:In Stock

How to Build An AR-15 Video
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/lid=11004/guntechdetail/How_to_Build_An_AR-15_Video
Click to expand...
 
Wendell said:
Order this free catalog. They also have video on their website.
Click to expand...

much thanks for the link, brownell's does rule, but i think a complete unit will save me alot of stress out of the starting gate:redface:

i've had enough issues with simple things like stock bolts and such on my cz858 to know when to accept the fact that my gunsmithing skills are severely lacking:p

i will definately be ordering the catalog though, i have their main catalog and it is by far the best firearm catalog i have come across, except it gets heavy when i'm reading it on the can for extended periods of time:)
 
I ordered the catalogue, though I have no illusions about either having the skills and tools to roll my own, or getting anything imported. Though it's interesting that Brownell's will send a catalogue to a Canadian address. Do they have some sort of special function or status for exporting north?
 
Brownells is a licenced exporter, and will ship whatever they can in accordance with US law.
Putting an AR together from parts is only an assembly operation. With quality, on-spec. parts, no fitting is required. The only specialized tools needed are one of the AR wrenches and barrel blocks.
There are a lot of parts in an AR. Unless you shop around, buying the parts and putting one together can cost more than buying a finished rifle. There are so many AR accessories and options that the heart of even the most dedicated mirror kommando can be made to go pitter patter.
 
greentips said:
Buy a complete rifle - that way you will know what a properly built rifle look like.
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Avoid the Frankengun complex for the first one, get a 16"/1-7" or 16"/1-9" carbine with the stock of your choice, learn the irons first then throw on an optic and have fun. The faster rates of twist will allow stabilization of everything from 40-75/77/80 gr projectiles (especially the 1-7"). I've built a few and it's not that difficult but there are things that you can do wrong that will cause you angst.

The 16" will give you lots of velocity at the ranges you are talking and if the rifle is from a reputable manufacturer (Colt/RRA/CMMG/Noveske/S&W/Bushmaster/Sabre/LMT + a few others that I can't think of right now) it will be more accurate than you are. Think about a mid-length gas system - nice but not absolutely essential, just a little easier on your moving parts if the barrel is longer than 14.5" - and also seriously consider an adjustable stock, especially if you are shorter or will be using this with altitude challenged shooters.

Don't worry too much about the FSB being in the way, it actually makes for a good initial index (like a big ghost-ring) if your optics are of or if the target is really close, so long as magnification is in the 1-2.5x range...


blake
 
mudgunner49 said:
Avoid the Frankengun complex for the first one, get a 16"/1-7" or 16"/1-9" carbine with the stock of your choice, learn the irons first then throw on an optic and have fun. The faster rates of twist will allow stabilization of everything from 40-75/77/80 gr projectiles (especially the 1-7"). I've built a few and it's not that difficult but there are things that you can do wrong that will cause you angst.

The 16" will give you lots of velocity at the ranges you are talking and if the rifle is from a reputable manufacturer (Colt/RRA/CMMG/Noveske/S&W/Bushmaster/Sabre/LMT + a few others that I can't think of right now) it will be more accurate than you are. Think about a mid-length gas system - nice but not absolutely essential, just a little easier on your moving parts if the barrel is longer than 14.5" - and also seriously consider an adjustable stock, especially if you are shorter or will be using this with altitude challenged shooters.

Don't worry too much about the FSB being in the way, it actually makes for a good initial index (like a big ghost-ring) if your optics are of or if the target is really close, so long as magnification is in the 1-2.5x range...


blake
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That's good advice..
+1
 
16" is a nice setup, there's some good advice above, but how big are you? I shoot a 20" Hbar for service rifle and CQB. I'm 6'3", so in pictures, my 20" doesn't extend proportionally any farther from my body than a 16" barrel does on a 5'0" person. I love my 20" Hbar and I'd be hesitant to replace it as my one and only AR.
 
cancer said:
16" is a nice setup, there's some good advice above, but how big are you? I shoot a 20" Hbar for service rifle and CQB. I'm 6'3", so in pictures, my 20" doesn't extend proportionally any farther from my body than a 16" barrel does on a 5'0" person. I love my 20" Hbar and I'd be hesitant to replace it as my one and only AR.
Click to expand...

i'm 6'6" and about 300 lbs

are 16" heavy contour barrels common?
 
hutchster said:
hehe:)

how do you like the ar180b compared to the ar15 series, besides the restricted/non-restricted aspect?

i have to hand it to the ar180b when it comes to stripping, it's just like the cz858, extremely simple, but the ar15 i played with wasn't too bad either:)
Click to expand...

I really like mine, but the Ar15 is without a doubt a better rifle.

Yah, the Ar180 has ridiculously simple innards and is very easy to clean. Mine has been very reliable (I've fired ~500 rounds, and only had a few failures to eject, and those were my fault (I had cleaned the rifle and not tightened the gas block properly after re-assembling it, so it was not cycling properly)). I like the idea of the gas piston system over the DI gas system of the Ar15 series, but there are other trade-offs. The lack of a picatinny rail on the top of the rifle is the biggest annoyance, and the lack of aftermarket parts/upgrades is another.

The nicest thing about the Ar15 is it's versatility, but the Restricted status was a big turn off for me (but I'll be getting one as soon as I can afford one, probably a Norinco, but I'd love a Bushmaster/Stag/Dlask :D).
 
That's the reason I ditched the AR180B - the gas block is screwed on.

It was so ridiculous - in the earlier day, Armalite actually advised their customers to loosen up the screws on the gas block and wiggle it, if they found their rifles having cycling issue.

Hit the gas block hard, and the rifle will become a one shot wonder.
 
If restricted status is a big turn off I would say to get a RobArms XCR.

They are more expensive but reasonable considering the cost of a base AR15 then add in flip up sights and a continuous (monolithic) rail and you can end up paying a lot more. The only thing I wish they had was a stock that both folds and collapses but then it would be restricted. It also takes all the picatinny rail accessories they AR15 can.

I agree with greentips that it would be better to buy a complete rifle then making your own right off the bat.

If you want a heavy contour (full auto rated) barrel look to CMMG, Questar has them at decent prices. One note while heavy barrels heat up slower they also cool slower than lighter barrels. If you also plan on adding accessories your rifle will only get heavier, keep that in mind.
 
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