Restricted or not?

slick39

slick39

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I just bought a barrel off the EE for my 10/22 that has been professionally cut down by a gunsmith to 11.5" and my question is will this make the 10/22 restricted since the barrel was cut down or does this law only apply to shotguns?

Also if you could help provide sources for your answers that would be a huge help.

Thanks for your help guys.
 
Afik, the barrel must be manufactured less than 18" to be legal. That means made that way by the manufacturer, and oal must remain over 26" if it is cut down to less than 18" it does not become restricted, it becomes prohibited regardless who does the cutting. Companies such as dlask can get around this because they manufacture the barrels, and thus it is legal to install them so long as the oal remains sufficient. And sadly, this applies to rimfire firearms. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. If i were you i wouldnt accept shipment because the 11.5" barrel itself is a prohibited item. Here is an excerpt from the Canadian Criminal Code.

CC s. *84(1) "prohibited firearm" (d): *If the barrel has been SHORTENED to less than 18"/457mm, after leaving the factory, "by sawing, cutting or ANY other alteration or modification" that forces the firearm into the "prohibited firearm" class. *
 
Has the seller already shipped? To be honest if the seller has any integrity they should offer you a full refund less shipping. Regardless whether or not you knew about the laws, They should know the applicable laws before trying to sell the item.
 
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Are you sure it was "cut-down"? I think I see the posting in the EE and it mentions being threaded and crowned, not shortened.

Just thought I'd ask.
 
A cut barrel has no legal status, in and of itself.
Installed on a rifle, the rifle becomes a prohibited firearm.
Basically, the cut barrel is a useless paperweight.
 
RadMan said:
Are you sure it was "cut-down"? I think I see the posting in the EE and it mentions being threaded and crowned, not shortened.

Just thought I'd ask.
Click to expand...

Further to this thought, some people confuse crowning and counterboring, or think they are the same (they aren't). Crowning can involve shortenting the barrel, but only a tiny amount; enough to freshen the crown. Its possible they meant 'counterbored' to 11.5", which would mean the barrel is likely still legal, but the rifling inside has been shortened significantly.

Hard to imagine that a professional gunsmith would cut someone's barrel down to a prohibited length.
 
the line stating the work was done by a professional gunsmith could be bullsh*t

OP, there are so many aftermarket barrels being made that are in this length, how would law enforcement distinguish that this one was made at the shorter length, or if this one was cut

hmmmm
 
RadMan said:
Are you sure it was "cut-down"? I think I see the posting in the EE and it mentions being threaded and crowned, not shortened.

Just thought I'd ask.
Click to expand...

I think because it says it's a 10/22 taper barrel that implies it is the factory barrel. I could be wrong though...

tiriaq said:
A cut barrel has no legal status, in and of itself.
Installed on a rifle, the rifle becomes a prohibited firearm.
Basically, the cut barrel is a useless paperweight.
Click to expand...

I'm going to look into this, I thought if it was chambered the barrel alone could not be less than 18" unless made by a licensed barrel manufacturer, but again, I don't doubt you, it's a grey area for me and I could be wrong.

Also simko, I believe it just says "professionally", no gunsmith mentioned in the ad, therefore it could have been done by anyone with a lathe.
 
well i searched the EE, couldnt find the ad, it must be gone since you bought it :)


so really, it could be a factory barrel thats been cut, shortened, crowned and threaded.... OR

it could be a factory taper, short barrel (manufactured by some corporation/person) which was then threaded and crowned by a machinist/gunsmith/fancy bubba/ whatever.

why dont you wait until it arrives and judge for yourself, or take pics if you really want to
 
huh...kinda tricky.

Another ray of sunshine? A "barrel manufacturer" could be called a "gunsmith", albeit a specialist...Not all "gunsmiths" are "barrel manufacturers".

Tinfoil hat wearin' me sees a dead (nearly) registry, but no change to "status" law. I feel for you, posting/inquiring after purchase. As stated above [in the event of]...vendor should "cover" it, but you may be out shipping costs.

You may also find a "manufactured" barrel, that has been threaded/crowned in the mail.
 
Well thank you guys for the input. I had sent off the EMT to the seller but after mentioning my uneasiness with the deal he agreed he would not accept the EMT. As far as I know it could very well be legal but it was not really a risk I was looking at getting into. Either way the seller was a gentleman and was very understanding.

You guys can continue to discuss as I am still interested in knowing the legalities.
 
All's well.

If you want to know the legalities, you can look 'em up. There's a link added to a thread almost once a week regarding barrel lengths.

Regarding "gentlemen" in the EE...Other than one "unfavorable" purchase [home invader, away now!], and at least 2 serious "my fault" faux pas, my EE experience beats the living daylights out of any [ANY] cyber commerce, and many face-to-face transactions.
 
tiriaq said:
A cut barrel has no legal status, in and of itself.
Installed on a rifle, the rifle becomes a prohibited firearm.
Basically, the cut barrel is a useless paperweight.
Click to expand...

I'd like to believe this were true. It may indeed be the case. I think it might require some professional legal interpretation though. Any lawyers in the house?

Looking at the criminal code it says...

“prohibited device” means

(a) any component or part of a weapon, or any accessory for use with a weapon, that is prescribed to be a prohibited device...
Click to expand...

...and...

Possession Offences
Marginal note:possession of weapon for dangerous purpose
88. (1) Every person commits an offence who carries or possesses a weapon, an imitation of a weapon, a prohibited device or any ammunition or prohibited ammunition for a purpose dangerous to the public peace or for the purpose of committing an offence.
Click to expand...


So I see a couple of things that might mean this doesn't include barrels cut too short. 1) the words "that is prescribed to be a prohibited device" seems to suggest that the law must specifically say "barrels cut less than 18" are prohibted devices" (which it doesn't).

Also, with possession laws, there are a couple of phrases that are key. 1) The words "for a purpose dangerous to the public peace" indicates there must be some intent to do something that would be dangerous. such as installing the barrel on a rifle. 2) There are grey areas written into law on purpose so that some laws can be ignored when the intent is lawful, so they add words like "without lawful excuse". In other words, you can't do it, but the RCMP can. On the other hand, if you were on your way to the RCMP headquaters to turn in a prohibited device when you were 'caught' with it, they might be understanding and consider your possession offence to have been a with a 'lawful excuse'.

A lot about the law depends on who is interpretting it, and how badly they want to press. If you were a vocal gun lobbyist or RCMP critic, don't expect them to interpret gun laws in your favor when you run into a legal issue. The law is a tool, and meant to be somewhat flexible. So much depends on the situation and the enforcement officer.

But its very important to know your own rights, and the laws, just in case you need to defend yourself when an officer wants to uphold a law improperly. It happens.
 
mikeystew said:
I think because it says it's a 10/22 taper barrel that implies it is the factory barrel. I could be wrong though...



I'm going to look into this, I thought if it was chambered the barrel alone could not be less than 18" unless made by a licensed barrel manufacturer, but again, I don't doubt you, it's a grey area for me and I could be wrong.

Also simko, I believe it just says "professionally", no gunsmith mentioned in the ad, therefore it could have been done by anyone with a lathe.
Click to expand...

There is no provision in the law for licencing barrel makers.

The only barrels that are illegal are under 105mm pistol barrels that are not associated with a registered 12-6 pistol.
 
Dakk said:
Its possible they meant 'counterbored' to 11.5", which would mean the barrel is likely still legal, but the rifling inside has been shortened significantly.
Click to expand...
^^^^^^^^^^
I am not sure about that.

From a legal p.o.v., "counterbored" when
the "rifling inside has been shortened significantly"
would mean exactly "shortened" IMO, since in Canada,
the length of a barrel is measured with a rod inserted in the bore,
from the face of the bolt to the forward end of the rifling.
 
I have a 10/22 barrel that i had custom made that is 10.5 inchs long it's non restricted because when the gun is in the stock the total length is 36 or 37 inchs long If it was under 26 it would be restricted. Now if the barrel was made that length no problem if the barrel was cut that size big problem. Its legal to have a barrel that is short on a rimfire only overall length matters so stock choice maters. Now if you put the short barrel and a folding buttler creek stock then it's restricted (unless you pin the stock open)
 
haha49 said:
I have a 10/22 barrel that i had custom made that is 10.5 inchs long it's non restricted because when the gun is in the stock the total length is 36 or 37 inchs long If it was under 26 it would be restricted. Now if the barrel was made that length no problem if the barrel was cut that size big problem. Its legal to have a barrel that is short on a rimfire only overall length matters so stock choice maters. Now if you put the short barrel and a folding buttler creek stock then it's restricted (unless you pin the stock open)
Click to expand...

This is what I've been led to believe too, that if the over all length of the .22lr gun is 26 inches or more you're fine as far as non restricted status goes.

There are catches to this rule, muzzle brakes and flashes don't count in length determination, and folding/collapsible stocks are measured from the shortened configuration.

Concerning shortening the barrel below 18 inches being a crime, this again becomes really confusing.

I can buy an 8inch barrel from Dlask, and put together a non restricted 10/22, but if a gun smith cuts, re-crowns, a 10/22 barrel to 11.5 inches he's going to jail?!

Plenty of barrels don't have any stampings on them indicating who made them and certainly none say their original factory length, so how do you enforce that "law". Ad to that the fact that you don't even need a PAL to buy a barrel in the first place.

As always the rules can be interpreted in many ways and it's another clear example of how messy the gun laws are in this country.

Here's hoping someone far more knowledgeable than me weighs in on this interesting thread, thanks guys.
 
Dakk, Im not sure installing the barrel is dangerous to the public. Maybe if you were caught committing serious crimes where they had reason to believe your guns were to be used illegally. Its still not legal of course, but I agree with the entire rest of your post. As for interpretation: keep a printout of the laws and receipts for any short barrels. Most importantly be polite and helpful when an LEO has a look. Thats pretty well key for any LEO situation but if your a #### he will not be easy on you.
 
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