restricted shotguns?

THe way I'm understanding this, with the lengths I'm measuring off my 590...

From the end of the receiver to the back of the pistol grip's screwhole (where it screws into the receiver, including the thickness of the grip) 9.5"

So the barrel MUST be 16.5" for an OAL or 26 inches.

So a factory made shotgun with a 16.5" barrel that was a receiver/grip length of 9.5" would meet the unrestricted OAL.

Now to look for 16.5" barreled shotguns. I always wanted a little brother to my 20" full stock 590.
 
Last I heard from the RCMP Tech Center for verifiers, is that OAL can not fall below 26" by folding or collapsing. Pistol grip only does not fold or collapse.
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The above is what is stated on the CFC website. It can be below 26" as long as it does not fold or collapse. He's within the letter of the law since a pistol grip does not fold or collapse.
 
00Buck said:
The above is what is stated on the CFC website. It can be below 26" as long as it does not fold or collapse. He's within the letter of the law since a pistol grip does not fold or collapse.
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This is so much WIN.

I'll verify this myself, but if it's to be interpreted that way, I'm getting a really short pistol grip shotgun.
 
sunray said:
"...just a simple pistol grip..." A shotgun with no stock is the most useless thing on Earth.
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Everyone says that and they could never be more wrong. I spent all night yesterday going back and forth, and I always comment on every other person that says that.

I DISAGREE.

I'm going to save this post and repost it whenever I see someone say what you say. That happens very often. First, if you keep a straight wrist and hold with the support hand tightly, it doesn't hurt at all. Hell, just the right hand holding the grip the right way isn't at all painful, and recoil is straight back. Do I need to post my single handed turkey load shotgun shoot? Second, accuracy with a pistol grip only is not only possible, it's very doable. Especially if you have a nice set of sights. Align as usual, pull trigger, bad thing or plinking target goes away. Buckshot out to 25 yards and slugs past 40 are a never miss for me. Third, it makes a very light, very compact and very powerful firearm. I've swept the house for ####s and giggles with my 20" barrelled 590 with a full stock, and there are corners and doorways that aren't even as wide as the OAL of my shotgun! I have to bring the shotgun in, enter or cross that room/hallway/doorway and present it again when I can. What use is a shotgun if you are in a situation that's so cramped that you can't even bring it on target?

Downsides to pistol grip only: Slower from shot to shot. You have to get it back on target and it takes more time. Less accurate and not as fast to get on target in the first place.

There's downsides to every configuration, but for a specific role, like my tiny house, I'd like a PGO. In any other situation, FULL STOCK PLEASE.

I'm not contradicting myself here. I'm saying there's a compromise to be made depending on the situation! PGOs are NOT useless.
 
Meph said:
Everyone says that and they could never be more wrong. I spent all night yesterday going back and forth, and I always comment on every other person that says that.

I DISAGREE.

I'm going to save this post and repost it whenever I see someone say what you say. That happens very often. First, if you keep a straight wrist and hold with the support hand tightly, it doesn't hurt at all. Hell, just the right hand holding the grip the right way isn't at all painful, and recoil is straight back. Do I need to post my single handed turkey load shotgun shoot? Second, accuracy with a pistol grip only is not only possible, it's very doable. Especially if you have a nice set of sights. Align as usual, pull trigger, bad thing or plinking target goes away. Buckshot out to 25 yards and slugs past 40 are a never miss for me. Third, it makes a very light, very compact and very powerful firearm. I've swept the house for s**ts and giggles with my 20" barrelled 590 with a full stock, and there are corners and doorways that aren't even as wide as the OAL of my shotgun! I have to bring the shotgun in, enter or cross that room/hallway/doorway and present it again when I can. What use is a shotgun if you are in a situation that's so cramped that you can't even bring it on target?

Downsides to pistol grip only: Slower from shot to shot. You have to get it back on target and it takes more time. Less accurate and not as fast to get on target in the first place.

There's downsides to every configuration, but for a specific role, like my tiny house, I'd like a PGO. In any other situation, FULL STOCK PLEASE.

I'm not contradicting myself here. I'm saying there's a compromise to be made depending on the situation! PGOs are NOT useless.
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This x2
 
00Buck said:
The above is what is stated on the CFC website. It can be below 26" as long as it does not fold or collapse. He's within the letter of the law since a pistol grip does not fold or collapse.
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But it still might be restricted because, according to the Rem 870 FRT notes, it MAY be considered a handgun in a pistol grip configuration with a barrel 16" or less.

It has been discussed many times on here.
 
I called the CFO folks yesterday to sort out some other shotgun stuff.

If you put a pistol grip on a shotgun and the OAL is under 26" it will be classed as a restricted handgun. This is EXACTLY what she told me.

If you find another piece of law that says otherwise have fun arguing with them. More than likely in court. You may be right but you have to ask yourself if it's worth the hassle.

If you don't want to take my word for it then call:

1-800-731-4000
ext:1090

This is the number to the people in the organization that actually have 1/2 a clue about these sorts of things. You don't need to say you've done it, just say your thinking about it. Let me know if they give you a different answer.
 
Dj_Squelch said:
I called the CFO folks yesterday to sort out some other shotgun stuff.

If you put a pistol grip on a shotgun and the OAL is under 26" it will be classed as a restricted handgun. This is EXACTLY what she told me.

If you find another piece of law that says otherwise have fun arguing with them. More than likely in court. You may be right but you have to ask yourself if it's worth the hassle.

If you don't want to take my word for it then call:

1-800-731-4000
ext:1090

This is the number to the people in the organization that actually have 1/2 a clue about these sorts of things. You don't need to say you've done it, just say your thinking about it. Let me know if they give you a different answer.
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Seriously, what on earth makes you think that? :confused:
 
Dj_Squelch said:
I called the CFO folks yesterday to sort out some other shotgun stuff.

If you put a pistol grip on a shotgun and the OAL is under 26" it will be classed as a restricted handgun. This is EXACTLY what she told me.

If you find another piece of law that says otherwise have fun arguing with them. More than likely in court. You may be right but you have to ask yourself if it's worth the hassle.

If you don't want to take my word for it then call:

1-800-731-4000
ext:1090

This is the number to the people in the organization that actually have 1/2 a clue about these sorts of things. You don't need to say you've done it, just say your thinking about it. Let me know if they give you a different answer.
Click to expand...

I called them about belt fed rifles, they said ALL BELD FED RIFLES ARE PROHIBITED.

Yeah these people are full of ####.
 
krausb said:
Seriously, what on earth makes you think that? :confused:
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Oh don't get me wrong, I talked to some woman who was telling me my shotgun was restricted or even prohib because I was swapping an 18" barrel for a 14". AND that my 18" had to be destroyed after it was removed. She knew absolutely nothing. Maybe the same person Meph talked to about those beltfeds?

But the last lady I talked to certainly seemed to know her s**t, told me that the short shotgun = handgun rule was stupid but it was the way that they were being classified. This to me states that while she may not agree with it at least she was willing to tell me what to expect. And as with all things firearms related:

You may be right but are you willing to go to court to prove it?
 
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Dj_Squelch said:
Oh don't get me wrong, I talked to some woman who was telling me my shotgun was restricted or even prohib because I was swapping an 18" barrel for a 14". AND that my 18" had to be destroyed after it was removed. She knew absolutely nothing. Maybe the same person Meph talked to about those beltfeds?

But the last lady I talked to certainly seemed to know her s**t, told me that the short shotgun = handgun rule was stupid but it was the way that they were being classified. This to me states that while she may not agree with it at least she was willing to tell me what to expect. And as with all things firearms related:

You may be right but are you willing to go to court to prove it?
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I don't have a shotgun under 20" barrel length in any case. I'm not cutting barrels or swapping stocks or doing anything of that sort.

I do want to know the legalities of shorter shotguns. I want to know if a factory made, bought short barreled shotgun (like those 12.5" barreled grizzlies) can have a pistol grip that does not collapse or have an adjustable stock system, as the clause fails to specify. A pistol grip only, short barreled shotgun. I want to find this out, and have a legal document appointed to me by the proper authority so when I buy and shoot that firearm, I can prove to whoever inquires that I'm within my legal freedoms.
 
Meph said:
I don't have a shotgun under 20" barrel length in any case. I'm not cutting barrels or swapping stocks or doing anything of that sort.

I do want to know the legalities of shorter shotguns. I want to know if a factory made, bought short barreled shotgun (like those 12.5" barreled grizzlies) can have a pistol grip that does not collapse or have an adjustable stock system, as the clause fails to specify. A pistol grip only, short barreled shotgun. I want to find this out, and have a legal document appointed to me by the proper authority so when I buy and shoot that firearm, I can prove to whoever inquires that I'm within my legal freedoms.
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If you ask the "proper authority" for this document they are going to say "No, that would make it a a pistol" if it's under 26" OAL or "sure no problem" if it's over 26" OAL. I know what the law says but what it says and how they interpret it are 2 VERY different animals.

But hey, I may be wrong. You can always try, all they can say is no right? But please let me know either way, because I would have to try a pistol grip on mine if I can get away with it! ;)
 
Email sent. I did read up and it said

"A firearm that can fire after being reduced, by folding, telescoping or otherwise, to an overall length of less than 660 mm (26")"

But I inquired, as most firearms can be fired with no stock of any kind (even if that could be dangerous due to the bare receiver moving backwards under recoil) just by pulling the trigger and can be bought with a completely stockless overall length of less than 26".
 
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