Returning Unsatisfactory Misurps to dealers.

D

davemccarthy707

CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Rating - 100%
96   0   0
Just a quick question. Is it reasonable to ask for the dealer to pay return shipping on a clearly defective milsurp? (IE. Damaged, severely rusted, counterbored etc.) Or is it simply buyer beware? I ask because I have never returned anything until today.

Dave
 
Well - I will be honest most dealers sell MILSUP rifles "As IS". Cabelas is one of the few exceptions - where you can return an SKS unfired back to the store. As a customer and as someone in the business this is a harsh but fair reality. From the buisiness side - usually when they order Milsups they don't know excactly what they are getting and once they arrive the quality can vary. There is also a smaller percentage of profit in these firearms as generally they cost less than many modern rifles and optics - so there is no test firing accuracy gurantee that a new manufacture can provide - new rifles are also accepted on return as they can be resold/refunded/repaired through exsisting chains. Milsups are not the same - I cannot send a RC K98 back to the Third Reich for repair/quality control and Stalin isn't offerring anything either.

This might seem unreasonable to the buyer - but less and less stores are carrying Milsup rifles do to supply/profit/problems and collectors should really think of this as a service vs. product. Even on new products return shipping is usually expected to be paid by the customer - Gunstores are not Amazon and usually operate on limited budgets.

Most SKS and Mosin Nagants will be counterbored - generally these are more accurate - I wouldn't really say this is a defect - but perhaps should have been mentioned.

Stock finish also widely varies on these and 'severe rusting' is up to the imagination without picks - some stores will even request a re-stocking fee - usually 20% for Milsup returns.

All too often, I've seen picky customers complain about a scratch on their $150 SKS or non-matching refurb part.

Dave - I am not saying that you were not badly treated but this is a complicated matter and please have some understanding for the store/supplier. Maybe an exchange for a nicer example would be a win/win scenario? Return at your cost and the new rifle delivered at their cost.
 
I bought a TT33 from SFRC with a defective hammer. It was on sale for $125. They paid for the shipping label back, top notch retailer.

I'd say if it is scratched/dinged finish worn...it's a military rifle so tough nuts. However if it's advertised as a working gun, you should get a working gun.
 
I once had to return a rifle .it was a m48 advertised as vg plus bore it was rusty under the cosmo I paid to ship it back and they paid to ship it back.while ago there was 100 dollar m 91/30s. I asked for a vg plus bore didn't care cost.went through 3 of them all were good at best.didnt bother sending back.im done with this particular dealer
 
Most retailers have a no return policy, that being said, there is often consideration given in individual cases. I've never bothered to try and return a milsurp. You just try and inspect them as closely as you can. Win some, lose some.
 
davemccarthy707 said:
Just a quick question. Is it reasonable to ask for the dealer to pay return shipping on a clearly defective milsurp? (IE. Damaged, severely rusted, counterbored etc.) Or is it simply buyer beware? I ask because I have never returned anything until today.

Dave
Click to expand...
In my opinion that would depend upon the seller's description of said firearm to you.With milsurps in particular obviously there will some dings and knocks,loss of finish to some degree and so on with virtually all of them in varying degrees,that's the way it is with them and as milsurp fans we understand this.That being said,if the seller sold you something that was supposed to be in much better condition than it turned out to be I believe you would be justified in returning it on the seller's dime.Luckily for me I have never had to do such a return.Any reputable dealer would or should be willing to cover this,at least in my opinion.
 
If the purchase is sight unseen the dealer should accept returns of defective / malfunctioning rifles but any cosmetic issues are your responsibility as the buyer. Ask for photos. God there are times I really should have asked for more photos..
 
Hmmm..I would think that a reputable dealer would look after their customers. ..that's how they get repeat buisness and a good reputation. .which means more customers....if you buy an item described as good, and it turns out to be junk...shipping should be included in the refund..
 
If it's defective or damaged then I would think a dealer would take it back to keep customers happy. It's part of doing business. If, as already mentioned, it is cosmetic, then likely a return wouldn't be granted on a milsurp. If the cosmetic appeal is much worse than described, or what photos disclosed, then one has the option of not dealing with that particular dealer again.
 
If the milsurp firearm in question doesn't function or clearly isn't in the condition the dealer says it is, a reputable dealer will take it back (it's a 50-50 tossup as to who pays return shipping) and either refund your money OR replace the firearm with one that does meet the condition the dealer says it is in. However, milsurp firearms are often sold "as-is", so some cosmetic dings and damage won't get you a refund.

That being said, in the case of milsurp firearms, there are WIDELY VARYING degrees of condition out there, even in the same crate (never mind warehouse or store). Your (the OP) firearm may have been sent to you by mistake.
 
davemccarthy707 said:
Just a quick question. Is it reasonable to ask for the dealer to pay return shipping on a clearly defective milsurp? (IE. Damaged, severely rusted, counterbored etc.) Or is it simply buyer beware? I ask because I have never returned anything until today.

Dave
Click to expand...

id rather have a counter bored mosin then one with a worn muzzle that's more like a hotdog down a hallway its done to make the gun more accurate. rust happens same as worn parts their milsurps the ones who hae seen the most combat will be the most beat to hell and worn guns around
 
Most milsurps are offered 'as is' just as most used rifles are. It makes sense. The only time I could see it being a fair solution to return it is if it is defective when you get it or the item is clearly not as described (i.e. if it was said VG+ bore and the bore was a sewer piper). This is why I prefer to buy my milsurps in person (so you know exactly what you are getting into) or from here as the seller is a individual and they will tend to show the item they are selling in detail (as opposed to a dealer with a brief description and maybe a sample photo).
 
Most sellers don't use the NRA modern gun condition standards when describing milsurps, and antique standards can't usually be used either, so the guns rated "good" and "very good", might only be in"fair" condition compared to modern standards if one is to be brutally honest.
Tough call for the dealers. Who wants to rate them "accurately" when the competition isn't, and making more profit?
 
antiqueguy said:
id rather have a counter bored mosin then one with a worn muzzle that's more like a hotdog down a hallway its done to make the gun more accurate. rust happens same as worn parts their milsurps the ones who hae seen the most combat will be the most beat to hell and worn guns around
Click to expand...


I have seen a lot of milsurp rifles and handguns in my day. Well into the triple digit thousands. When that stuff comes in to a wholesaler it has usually been purchased by LOTS. In some cases, they purchase it from government arsenal disposal sales or auctions or from people that have been to those sales to actually view what is being offered. To my knowledge, they don't get to pick and choose what the lots are made up of.

If the firearms are sold to them as "mixed condition" anything is possible from scrap metal and firewood to pristine in the wrap and arsenal reconditioned.

Of course, full lots of arsenal reconditioned or still packed in factory condition are much more expensive and quite frankly hard to come by in quantities that make it worthwhile for the nations to go through the expense of disposal through legal channels. They only way they will do so is if there is a lot of money involved. The original purchasers will get them for dimes on the dollar. Then of course the price goes up every time they cross a border or go through another distributor. Some nations insist on UN style markings and some insist they have to be qualified by their safety standards. All of this raises costs dramatically.

Once in awhile mixed quality lots come up for sale at very reasonable prices and in quantities that are affordable to smaller Canadian distributors. The distributors will either sell them as is or graded. Most outlets, even local gunshops will visually inspect the firearms before they go for sale. This doesn't mean they will be stripped down and inspected, just a quick inspection when they open the crates or shipping boxes. I have seen SMLEs and Martinis stacked on pallets 15 per row 20 high and held down with metal banding without any protective pads between the rifles or under the bands. Some of the rifles were as new or arsenal refurbed and some of them were scrap metal and firewood mixed.

I spent a lot of summer hours/days cleaning up/stripping down the junk pallets and stripping them for salable parts and even putting shootable units together out of the parts. That was close to 50 years ago but for some reason, I don't think a lot has changed. Numrich has to get their parts from somewhere.

When you buy a milsurp, especially in out of the mainstream areas like the Territories or Nfld. etc, do not buy a pig in a poke. Request pictures and a fair grade of condition evaluation. If you don't, it's caveat emptor.

Any shop I have dealt with will be very careful to make sure YOU have been appraised of condition before you purchase it. If you don't know how to grade a rifle, that is your fault.

OP, Depending on who you purchased it from this might just be one of those valuable lessons in life.
 
No details, as the Dealer agreed that the rifle slipped through the cracks. I was just wondering what the consensus is here for the customer paying return shipping. Oh well a 40 dollar lesson learned.
 
Always read the fine print, some dealers want 15% to 20% for returning a defective item and wanting your money back.

Some dealers ship what can be called "factory seconds", that have to be immediately sent away for repairs under warranty.

To me such an item is not in new condition.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom