Rimfire barrel length question

olhol

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I have a question regarding rimfire minimum barrel length. Understanding that I cannot shorten a barrel myself, if I purchase a semi-automatic rimfire rifle (10/22) with a 469mm (18.5 inch) barrel, and a 203mm (8 inch) dlask brand new barrel, can I installed the 203mm (8 inch) barrel on the rifle and it remain non-restricted? Provided it meets the 660mm overall length of course.

Whilst I see that many others have done this, my question is complicated by the below statement in the firearms act which pertains to prohibited firearms:

Firearms adapted from a rifle or shotgun, whether by sawing, cutting or any other alteration and that, as so adapted are:
- less than 660 mm in length
- 660 mm or greater in length and has a barrel less than 457 mm in length

Does the statement “or any other alteration” include installing a new barrel?

Thanks in advance all!
 
You are asking what does a particular phrase in legislation mean.

As was explained to me when our company was amalgamated into a USA owned entity, and I got to meet with my peers at various USA operations - totally different approaches to that. In Saskatchewan, we would commonly ask which ever authority enforced that law - what does it mean in these circumstances? Whatever he said was actually pure B.S., since it was not actually binding on any one else in his role - but we went for years doing that - if the Mine Inspector said it was okay, that is how we proceeded. Found out when Inspectors got changed, what the previous guy said, did not always match up with what the current guy thought. I expect the exact same thing can happen if you ask an RCMP officer, or a Game Warden, and then run into a different one.

Versus my USA counterparts - they would ask their company lawyer what it meant - that lawyer was the one who would be defending them in front of a judge.

In both Canada and USA, it will be a Judge who decides what it means - but there will be some authority who decides whether to charge you with a violation in the first place - that gets you in front of a judge - and then, in front of that Judge, there will be at least two lawyers trying to convince that judge which way to rule on the facts of that incident - one - your "defence lawyer " will try to argue that what you did was "on side" the words - he/she will argue that you are "innocent"; the other lawyer - often a prosecutor, will try to convince the judge that what you did was not on side of the words - that you are "guilty". Was very apparent to some of us, that "politics of the day" enter into the decision whether or not you will get charged, in the first place, or less often, which way the Judge will rule. In the end, it just does not matter what the Inspector (enforcing authority), what you, or what your lawyer "think" or "feel" the words mean - it will be the decision of that Judge, that "counts", for what does the words mean in the specific facts of the case. I think.

At least in Canada, that first Judge is often referred to as the "trier of fact" - a big part of what he does is to document and record what actually occurred - the "facts" upon which he applied the words of the law. Then, that is all subject to "appeal" - there is usually a whole hierarchy of Appeal Courts - usually they become panels of judges - not just one judge - and usually a "majority" have to decide whether or not that lower level judge was correct in interpreting the words to those "facts". You might disagree with their decision - is up to your lawyer to find an error made by that lower level, for the next level of Appeal Court to "fix". Is typical that some Court decisions become "binding" - is no more choice about what the words mean, for specific facts - and all involved - defence lawyers, prosecuting lawyers and Judges, (and, probably you and the general public) all have access to the previous precedents, how similar cases were dealt with, previously. That is all likely theoretical and idealistic - is considerable evidence that there is much "interference" in that process.

For some people, it is confusing that what someone else "got away with" doing, or what you read on an anonymous Internet Chatroom like this one, is not likely to be accepted by most judges as "evidence" of your innocence. If 15 cars are driving at 120 km/hr in a 100 km/hr speed zone, and you are the one pulled over and charged with speeding, what the other 14 drivers were doing, may not be relevant, at all, to the charge of whether you were exceeding the 100 km speed limit, or not. They "got away with it" - you did not. There might be good and valid reasons why you were doing what you were doing, but does not change the "fact" that you were going 120 km/h in a 100 km/h speed zone.
 
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Thanks for the response here, appreciate the anecdote too!

I guess in this case it’s best to play it safe and use a newly built receiver like a TUFF-22 or similar. If my rifle ultimately began as a rifle with an 18.5 inch barrel then I feel like it could land me in hot water.

Another instance of Canadian firearms law making zero logical sense!

Thanks again
 
As long as you keep it 660mm+ you're good. Literally tens of thousands of people have 10/22s with aftermarket barrels shorter than 18", I have yet to hear about someone getting charged for it so chances are very low you'll have any issues.

And at worst you're creating a restricted firearm not a prohib with an aftermarket barrel.
 
" . . . And at worst you're creating a restricted firearm not a prohib with an aftermarket barrel. "
If No RPAL or NOT registered firearm - - Like arrest, jail, lawyer, losing all firearms, losing house, losing wife & kids, etc . . . No Big Deal ??
 
" . . . And at worst you're creating a restricted firearm not a prohib with an aftermarket barrel. "
If No RPAL or NOT registered firearm - - Like arrest, jail, lawyer, losing all firearms, losing house, losing wife & kids, etc . . . No Big Deal ??

I'd rather be caught with a R gun I thought was NR than a P gun I thought was NR. Ymmv.

That said I don't think the OP would be making an R or P gun by changing the barrel. There are likely millions of firearms in Canada, between 10/22s, shotguns, and custom bolt action rifles where barrels shorter than 18" were installed on receivers that originally left the factory with a barrel. If it were a problem someone would have gotten in trouble for it by now.
 
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I have a question regarding rimfire minimum barrel length. Understanding that I cannot shorten a barrel myself, if I purchase a semi-automatic rimfire rifle (10/22) with a 469mm (18.5 inch) barrel, and a 203mm (8 inch) dlask brand new barrel, can I installed the 203mm (8 inch) barrel on the rifle and it remain non-restricted? Provided it meets the 660mm overall length of course.

You cannot shorten a barrel or alter it by yourself. That's the most important part.

Whilst I see that many others have done this, my question is complicated by the below statement in the firearms act which pertains to prohibited firearms:
Firearms adapted from a rifle or shotgun, whether by sawing, cutting or any other alteration and that, as so adapted are:
- less than 660 mm in length
- 660 mm or greater in length and has a barrel less than 457 mm in length
Does the statement “or any other alteration” include installing a new barrel?

No, it does not. The said rifle can leave a factory with a short barrel and it's non-restricted beacuse it's not altered in any way. The said rifle can also leave a factory without a barrel and one can install any barrel length which is not an alteration either.
The law on semi-auto centerfire is different.

Thanks in advance all!

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You absolutely CAN shorten a barrel. Just not shorter than 18" (or more specifically the mm equivalent of that.) If the OP had a 24" barrel and wanted to chop it to 18.1" that would be just fine.

I'm referring to the OP case of 18.5" barrel for a 10/22 (he wants to purchase one). Obviously, you can shorten any barrel longer than 18" (457mm) to the length of 457mm (Sec.84CCC) by yourself. No disagreement here.
 
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Alteration
When you install a factory finnished bbl it is not a alteration
Alteration means to the original firearm

Perhaps is "funny" - I think you would end up with a rifle that has been "altered" from the way it left the factory. The quote given in Post #1 seems to me to refer to an alteration of the firearm - not just an alteration to the barrel - but so far as I know, none of us are "judges" - so our "opinions" really do not "count". You could very well be correct. I do not know.

I am sure one could argue that "wear" or "use" results in the firearm being "altered" from when it was brand new made - adding a scope definitely would alter the firearm - so that phrase "any other alteration" is really not terribly precise - but because it is in a Canadian "law", it must have a fairly precise meaning - except I do not know what it might be, nor who says so.
 
My line of thinking is, if it’s not legal to change out a factory or aftermarket barrel to a shorter barrel than 18”, then should the sale of said barrel not be illegal? Why would the overlords not restrict the sale of short barrels? Just something to ponder
 
Nothing is illegal unless you get caught, OR, someone wants to cause you problems and generous interpretations of vaguely written law allow them to slap you around. Firearms law is one of those things that there could be nothing inherently "wrong" with what you're doing, and if you don't draw attention to yourself you'll be just fine, but it can be weaponized against you on a whim and there'll be some section of violations to throw at you if one is so inclined. You'll be as innocent as you can afford to be.
 
Also depends on where you shoot it ����������
After you read Gary all the misinterpreted response the correct answer is you can install not alter any bbl length you want as long as it meets the oal
That is the law not some ones misinterpretation of the law
 
My Ruger SR-22 came with a factory 16” barrel and it’s legal, how short of a barrel do you want? If anything I wouldn’t cut a factory barrel but just replace it with one in the length you want.
 
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