Robert Jones shotguns

smellie

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Just picked up a sorry old wreck which, under all the paint and rust, seems to be a very nice gun, lovely English "Rose and Scroll" engraving, Damascus barrels (30-inch with chambers that appear to be 2-3/4 inches..... could have been deepened at some time). A beautifully-balanced old thing.

Barrels are marked "Robert Jones, Monarch Gun Works, Manchester Street, Liverpool". Serial number is 9142 on standing breech, barrel ass'y and fore-end. Barrels are 12-bore chambers but marked 13. LEFT barrel is stamped "CHOKE" on the flat at the breech.

Can anyone enlighten me as to the age of this critter, or provide any detail on Robert Jones and the Monarch Gun Works on Manchester Street in Liverpool?

Thanks.
 
Smellie, a nice find! The company has some history. Jones was first recorded in 1826 at 27 Stanhope Street in Liverpool, Robert Jones may have taken over the business of John Jones. The firm moved in 1830 to 32 Stanhope Street, and in 1834 Edward Jones was recorded at that address as well.

In 1846 it appears that Robert moved to 9 Waterloo Road with additional premises at 53 Oldhall Street, but there may have been a son of the same name and this may have been when he took over the business.

In 1855 the firm moved to 32 Great Howard Street.

In 1872 the firm patented a push-forward underlever (No. 2121).

In 1885 together with W Taylor, Robert Jones patented a "comb" top lever (No. 7715).

At some time the firm moved to 42 Manchester Street (N.B. YOUR GUN) where it appears to have remained until about 1908. They appear to have opened premises at 60 Dale Street in about 1902 but also may have occupied 6 Chapel Street for a short time.

Probably during the First World War, the firm became Hooton & Jones, they were still located at 60 Dale Street.

Reportedly, the firm (Robert Jones? / Hooton & Jones? / James H Hooton?) was bought by W C Carswell in 1920, but in 1924 "it" (James H Hooton formerly Hooton & Jones) was bought by W Richards (Liverpool) Ltd.

There were (at least) three generations named "Robert", and all were gunmakers. R Thomas is a descendant of Robert (2) who was his great great grandfather (born in 1833, emigrated to the USA in 1885 and died in New York in 1905, profession on death certificate given as "Jeweller").

So, all told, your Robert Jones will date from no later than 1908, and probably after 1902, although possibly earlier. Most of the above info comes from the Internet Gun Club.

There is paint on the gun? Where? Who would paint an English SXS? Please be very careful in cleaning it up and do not cause more damage.

I would not shoot it until a qualified double-gun gunsmith has looked at it, and even then only with black powder loads or hand loaded low pressure loads.

Are you sure that the chambers are 2 3/4 inch? Remember, an unfired 2 3/4" shell will drop right into a 2 1/2" chamber.Is it a hammer or hammerless gun? Sidelock or boxlock? How much engraving coverage? Can you see the pattern in the Damascus barrels? Is there any choke? Sorry if I am being nosey.

Proof marks on the barrel flats and water table may tell you more of the story. Many English guns were re-proofed along the way, if you can post pics I can help interpret the marks. I hope some of this helps.

Sharptail
 
Dustin: tell Bunny I already have a 1911: a 1911 Steyr! It doesn't jam! ;-)

Sharptail, thanks for the great info and for the hard work in searching it out.

I measured the chambers with a pencil, being rather careful about stopping when I got to the forcing cone. Gun is a hammer double, back-action locks. The Damascus pattern is evident full length of the barrels, although sometimes partially obscured by rust, dirt, filth and white paint spatters. It is starting to clean up nicely, though. I do want to get some pictures before I go too far. These will take a little time, as I am one of those old-fashioned people who still use actual film and it takes time to develop the stuff. (Oh, if I could find a 4x5 digital with the lens that my Graflex has......!)

As soon as I have some snaps, will be removing the steel wrapping on the wrist of the stock and then I will be able to see the locks fully. Right now, all you can see is the round forward end of the locks. Believe it or not, the poor old thing is actually still reasonably tight, but a discreet bump will be needed to bring the doll's head down all the way. When the gun is closed tightly, there is less than .001" clearance between the barrels and the standing breech.

Will gauge both muzzles and chambers tonight.

When it's back lookin' okay, this will be used only as a blackpowder-and-ball gun, and with mild loads at that. Bores are pretty good, but there are a few pits, and we all know about pits and Damascus steel.

Again, thanks for the hard work. Pics should be a few days but they will be posted.
 
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