F22_RaptoR
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Edmonton, Alberta
Well it's been a while, but just before Christmas my Bottom metal from Roedale Precision finally came in!
I did promise a fairly inclusive "how to" so I'll describe what I had to go through as much as possible (I did take a few pics but stopped after the first step of inletting), However I'll say right now this is a lot more involved than I was let on to believe. Roedale did have to completely re-design their bottom metals as their previous supplier had stopped communicating with them. Considering how difficult it was to do all the fitting I would STRONGLY suggest getting this done professionally!
First off, the original one (made by Alutek out of Sweden) was an ambidextrous push button release, which did appeal to me a lot. Once Roedale redesigned it for in-house production it was made to a flapper (M14) style release not unlike the CDI bottom metals. Still ambi, but not a push button type.
Comparing it in the most BASIC description to the CDI, there are a couple differences. First off the Roedale has a REALLY big trigger guard (as opposed to the CDI which is only a little bigger than the T3 one)! The downside is that the release is quite long on it, and protrudes down quite a bit as opposed to the CDI bottom metal's. The upside is you have a HUGE trigger guard! Awesome for cold weather shooting (even the heaviest gloves I could find would fit the trigger finger in), as well the benefit to the nice long release is it's also very easy to manipulate it and release mags (still a very purposeful push is required so the mags won't just accidentally release) even with thick gloves on.
For tools, you're almost required to have at LEAST a dremel tool, however I would STRONGLY suggest a mill! The part about just needing a flat file and 5 minutes is complete baloney. To start off a nice 1/4" round file and some AGGRESSIVE flat files (preferably a rasp for initial work). You also need something to inlet the stock for depth. I actually used the power adaptor LEE case trimmer, and got some of the case trimmer inserts to centre them on the takedown screw holes in the stock.
Now for the install:
First off just putting the bottom metal up to the stock shows quite a bit of material that needs to be taken out. First off the 4 little spines inside the stock where the mag rides needs to be removed. This is easiest to do with a sharp chisel, you don't even need much pressure with a hammer just gently cut them out.
With the ribs cut off:
Once those are gone, you'll need to measure where the actual mag well is going to go. This is the most invasive part so I did it first, also later it will let you slip the mag well in far enough to mark out where to open up the rest of the stock. I initially marked this using a triangular file just to get a visualization. Using the 1/4" round files I cut into the 4 corners to mark them out. Then comes the rasp (or a dremel) to remove the material from the sides. Remember don't take too much off too quickly or else you'll weaken the stock or have to use more filler if you want to bed the bottom metal. Once all the inletting for the mag well is done it should look somewhat like this (or a little cleaner maybe!)
You can now fit the bottom metal in to check how it fits, and make sure it's lined up.
You don't need to take much material off around the front or back to fit the "skirt" of the bottom metal, just around the widest part of the mag well. This is the last step I did, so don't mess with the "skirt" just yet.
The next part (and this is where I stopped taking pictures
) is inletting for depth. As I said before, I used a case trimmer with a screw driver handle and the case inserts to cut down into the stock to fit it for depth. The Roedale DBM needs at least 3mm cut down at the rear, and about 1-1.5mm cut down at the front for it to fit flush, and you will need it to fit flush in order to get the mag seated high enough.
Once I cut down the depth with the case trimmer cutter (beware, you WILL cut into a void in the rear of the inletted area, I did re-enforce this part with epoxy after it was fitted through the T3 cap area, used a big bore syringe and epoxy to fill that area in), I took the Dremel with a little rotary cutter (1/8" x 1/4") to slowly open up the cut down areas to the same size and profile as the original bottom "plastic". You need to be careful about this as the plastic will melt quite quickly and go gooey on you. If you take your time and let the plastic clear out it should be fine and not gum up too much.
Once you have the depth cut in, you can use a micrometer to check your depth and make sure it's matched and the same on both sides (AKA: LEVEL!). The hardest part is opening up the rest of the stock for the wider "skirt" on the bottom metal, as it's wider than even the mag well area. The same 1/4" cutter can work but it's slow. A sanding drum can do the majority of the work but will leave a sloppy edge so I finished it with the 1/4" trimmer bit. You'll need to go quite slow and not apply too much pressure or the plastic will melt and hide any nice clean lines you had. You will also need to cut the depth of the skirt area down as well as it ends up being the same depth all the way around.
Remember, again fitting is key, taking too much material away can leave it loose and you will have to bed it in. There were a couple places on the skirt I took too much off which is why I decided to fully bed it with epoxy, which should also have the benefit of a more rigid stock in the end.
I did make a photo-chop of the areas you need to cut into for the 'skirt'. Blue is the distance down you need to cut, and the red is about how wide you'll want it to get opened up. The width is easy to check once you can get the bottom metal to slot into the mag well area, just mark it with tape or a pencil.
Once all your test fitting is done, and you have checked that the rifle will feed correctly, you may want to bed it with Epoxy. I did just to get the extra strength and solid fit. I'm not sure if the true bedding compounds are preferred, I ended up using the full slow cure JB weld as I've had good experiences with it before, but obviously you can use whatever you think will give the strongest fit and best fill! You will probably need to tweak the AI mags a bit to ensure feeding (mine were just barely grabbing the case by a 1/2mm so with some tweaking it's got a solid 2mm bite now).
The kit does NOT come with an extended bolt stop, I ended up buying one from Brownells, so you may just want to buy the Roedale Precision one while you're on the website instead of trying to mess around and shorten the factory one. It DOES come with an extra STEEL mag release designed to be fitted if you need extra height with the mags, as well as a spare pin and spring to go with it. This way if you're short on height or the feed lips are too open when tweaked, this will allow you to get some extra height on the mag, although you're limited on the area in the bottom metal where the mag latch slots into. If you open this up a bit you can get as much extra height as you need!
Bottom line:
Quality of the bottom metal is outstanding. I personally think a few engineering tweaks could make the installation even easier, namely keeping the "skirt" the same profile as the original T3 piece, although it may be a strength issue as it does add some meat to the thin area of the mag well.
Installation is a MAJOR PITA. I would not recommend anybody do this on their own, send it off to a gunsmith with a mill and it will be done easier and done cleaner. Much less aggravation.
Feeding and performance seems to be flawless, I didn't need to tweak the mags too much for them to work, although I do understand this is a common practice with the AI mags.
Would I go through all this again knowing what I do now? Probably not. I would have sent it off to be done professionally.
CDI or Roedale Precision? This depends on what you want, the Roedale is nice because of the huge trigger guard, and I think the quality of the part is superb. The CDI's look nice but I can't tell how much work they are to install so they may be easier or harder to inlet.
Am I happy with the end result? YES! Definitely love how it's turned out in the end, even though it was a PITA I am ecstatic with the final results.
Hopefully I can get out shooting here soon to give the review on the Brake as well!
I did promise a fairly inclusive "how to" so I'll describe what I had to go through as much as possible (I did take a few pics but stopped after the first step of inletting), However I'll say right now this is a lot more involved than I was let on to believe. Roedale did have to completely re-design their bottom metals as their previous supplier had stopped communicating with them. Considering how difficult it was to do all the fitting I would STRONGLY suggest getting this done professionally!
First off, the original one (made by Alutek out of Sweden) was an ambidextrous push button release, which did appeal to me a lot. Once Roedale redesigned it for in-house production it was made to a flapper (M14) style release not unlike the CDI bottom metals. Still ambi, but not a push button type.
Comparing it in the most BASIC description to the CDI, there are a couple differences. First off the Roedale has a REALLY big trigger guard (as opposed to the CDI which is only a little bigger than the T3 one)! The downside is that the release is quite long on it, and protrudes down quite a bit as opposed to the CDI bottom metal's. The upside is you have a HUGE trigger guard! Awesome for cold weather shooting (even the heaviest gloves I could find would fit the trigger finger in), as well the benefit to the nice long release is it's also very easy to manipulate it and release mags (still a very purposeful push is required so the mags won't just accidentally release) even with thick gloves on.
For tools, you're almost required to have at LEAST a dremel tool, however I would STRONGLY suggest a mill! The part about just needing a flat file and 5 minutes is complete baloney. To start off a nice 1/4" round file and some AGGRESSIVE flat files (preferably a rasp for initial work). You also need something to inlet the stock for depth. I actually used the power adaptor LEE case trimmer, and got some of the case trimmer inserts to centre them on the takedown screw holes in the stock.
Now for the install:
First off just putting the bottom metal up to the stock shows quite a bit of material that needs to be taken out. First off the 4 little spines inside the stock where the mag rides needs to be removed. This is easiest to do with a sharp chisel, you don't even need much pressure with a hammer just gently cut them out.
With the ribs cut off:
Once those are gone, you'll need to measure where the actual mag well is going to go. This is the most invasive part so I did it first, also later it will let you slip the mag well in far enough to mark out where to open up the rest of the stock. I initially marked this using a triangular file just to get a visualization. Using the 1/4" round files I cut into the 4 corners to mark them out. Then comes the rasp (or a dremel) to remove the material from the sides. Remember don't take too much off too quickly or else you'll weaken the stock or have to use more filler if you want to bed the bottom metal. Once all the inletting for the mag well is done it should look somewhat like this (or a little cleaner maybe!)
You can now fit the bottom metal in to check how it fits, and make sure it's lined up.
You don't need to take much material off around the front or back to fit the "skirt" of the bottom metal, just around the widest part of the mag well. This is the last step I did, so don't mess with the "skirt" just yet.
The next part (and this is where I stopped taking pictures
) is inletting for depth. As I said before, I used a case trimmer with a screw driver handle and the case inserts to cut down into the stock to fit it for depth. The Roedale DBM needs at least 3mm cut down at the rear, and about 1-1.5mm cut down at the front for it to fit flush, and you will need it to fit flush in order to get the mag seated high enough.Once I cut down the depth with the case trimmer cutter (beware, you WILL cut into a void in the rear of the inletted area, I did re-enforce this part with epoxy after it was fitted through the T3 cap area, used a big bore syringe and epoxy to fill that area in), I took the Dremel with a little rotary cutter (1/8" x 1/4") to slowly open up the cut down areas to the same size and profile as the original bottom "plastic". You need to be careful about this as the plastic will melt quite quickly and go gooey on you. If you take your time and let the plastic clear out it should be fine and not gum up too much.
Once you have the depth cut in, you can use a micrometer to check your depth and make sure it's matched and the same on both sides (AKA: LEVEL!). The hardest part is opening up the rest of the stock for the wider "skirt" on the bottom metal, as it's wider than even the mag well area. The same 1/4" cutter can work but it's slow. A sanding drum can do the majority of the work but will leave a sloppy edge so I finished it with the 1/4" trimmer bit. You'll need to go quite slow and not apply too much pressure or the plastic will melt and hide any nice clean lines you had. You will also need to cut the depth of the skirt area down as well as it ends up being the same depth all the way around.
Remember, again fitting is key, taking too much material away can leave it loose and you will have to bed it in. There were a couple places on the skirt I took too much off which is why I decided to fully bed it with epoxy, which should also have the benefit of a more rigid stock in the end.
I did make a photo-chop of the areas you need to cut into for the 'skirt'. Blue is the distance down you need to cut, and the red is about how wide you'll want it to get opened up. The width is easy to check once you can get the bottom metal to slot into the mag well area, just mark it with tape or a pencil.
Once all your test fitting is done, and you have checked that the rifle will feed correctly, you may want to bed it with Epoxy. I did just to get the extra strength and solid fit. I'm not sure if the true bedding compounds are preferred, I ended up using the full slow cure JB weld as I've had good experiences with it before, but obviously you can use whatever you think will give the strongest fit and best fill! You will probably need to tweak the AI mags a bit to ensure feeding (mine were just barely grabbing the case by a 1/2mm so with some tweaking it's got a solid 2mm bite now).
The kit does NOT come with an extended bolt stop, I ended up buying one from Brownells, so you may just want to buy the Roedale Precision one while you're on the website instead of trying to mess around and shorten the factory one. It DOES come with an extra STEEL mag release designed to be fitted if you need extra height with the mags, as well as a spare pin and spring to go with it. This way if you're short on height or the feed lips are too open when tweaked, this will allow you to get some extra height on the mag, although you're limited on the area in the bottom metal where the mag latch slots into. If you open this up a bit you can get as much extra height as you need!
Bottom line:
Quality of the bottom metal is outstanding. I personally think a few engineering tweaks could make the installation even easier, namely keeping the "skirt" the same profile as the original T3 piece, although it may be a strength issue as it does add some meat to the thin area of the mag well.
Installation is a MAJOR PITA. I would not recommend anybody do this on their own, send it off to a gunsmith with a mill and it will be done easier and done cleaner. Much less aggravation.
Feeding and performance seems to be flawless, I didn't need to tweak the mags too much for them to work, although I do understand this is a common practice with the AI mags.
Would I go through all this again knowing what I do now? Probably not. I would have sent it off to be done professionally.
CDI or Roedale Precision? This depends on what you want, the Roedale is nice because of the huge trigger guard, and I think the quality of the part is superb. The CDI's look nice but I can't tell how much work they are to install so they may be easier or harder to inlet.
Am I happy with the end result? YES! Definitely love how it's turned out in the end, even though it was a PITA I am ecstatic with the final results.
Hopefully I can get out shooting here soon to give the review on the Brake as well!
Last edited:
