Ross M-10 bolt takedown

PerversPépère

CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Rating - 100%
99   0   0
Hi!
Here are some pics to help you in your first try at this "daunting" task. I had to take the pics in a hurry to help a CanadianGunNutz member and some of the pics aren't perfect but I promise to redo some of them for more clarity. :redface:

OK, let's roll! First, you have to take the extractor out by lifting it to clear the retaining groove on the bolthead. To do this, place a flat-bladed screwdriver under the extractor near the groove and pry just enough to clear the groove. Push on it outwards and it's done.

Bolt1.jpg


Bolt2.jpg


Now take time to inspect the rear part of the bolt; notice there is a through hole at the end of the firing pin. Thread a wire or a hook into that hole to give you some purchase.

Bolt4.jpg


Put the bolt in a vice with padded jaws so it cannot move; pull on the firing pin and place a small 1 1/4" wood block in he sear block groove.

Bolt5.jpg


You'll notice a short, fat crosspin with rounded ends; this is the pin that secures the firing pin into the sear block. Push it out with a nail driver while keeping tension on the firing pin; it doesn't need much effort to slide out. Take the wood block out and let the firing pin come to rest slowly.

Bolt6.jpg


Here's the sear and crosspin out

Bolt7.jpg


Now, after marking them, grasp the two parts of the bolt and slowly unscrew them. Mark the point where they separate with a marker or machinist scribe if you intend to use strong solvents. Here are the two parts of the bolt and assorted bits.

Bolt9.jpg


Now, you have to take the firing pin and its spring out. There is a threaded stopper at the rear which has two ears; it unscrews in the normal manner but there is a special retainer behind it that prevents any unwanted unscrewing. It clicks on every half-turn.
Adjust your bench vise jaws open just enough to let the firing pin pass and unscrew the firing pin stop by turning the bolt body.
Here's the part with the bolt stop unscrewed one turn for clarity.

Bolt10.jpg


Here's the firing pin and related parts still assembled; notice the special retainer washer with outside projection and two locating nubs on its surface: that projection fits in a groove inside the bolt sleeve (to keep the washer from rotating) with the twin nubs facing outwards toward the threaded stopper.

Bolt11.jpg


Bolt12.jpg



Here are the parts disassembled

Bolt13.jpg


And here is the elephant, skinned, quartered and ready for cleaning.

Bolt14.jpg


If your bolt is of the "safety rivet" kind, there's only one way to reassemble it; for the "unrivetted" ones (much rarer) you can fumble it but there is only one position where reassembly is smooth. One surefire way to be certain: the gas port will face up when the bolt is in the open position.
Now, reassembly is in the exact reverse order BUT there's a trick: when you have finally succeeded in starting the inner bolt inside the sleeve, you'll reach a point where the bolthead cannot turn the final 80-90 degrees.
You have to pull apart the two pieces ever so slightly and you'll feel a slight 1/16" movement then the bolthead will rotate in place.
This last stage can drive you crazy if you don't do it right but it is so smooth once you discover the Ali Baba's secret move, you won't believe! :)
Good cleaning and NEVER force anything: if you have to force, something is wrong.
 
BadgerDog said:
Thanks PerversPépère ....... :)

Great article........... and valuable to Ross owners ...

For those folks with low speed access, I've added your post to the MKB (Milsurp Knowledge Base) under the "Technical Articles for Milsurp Collectors and Re-loaders" section, downsizing the pics into expandable thumbnails.

Ross M-10 Rifle Bolt Disassembly (click here.. scroll down)http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?p=766440

Regards,
Badger
Thanks a lot BadgerDog! I just saw the new post and it is great!
PP.:D
 
Last edited:
Great writeup, PP! Concise directions, excellent photographs.
I wonder if it would be worth posting a photo of an INCORRECTLY assembled bolt, so folks could see what a bolt should NOT look like?
 
??! incorrectly assembled?!!

tiriaq said:
Great writeup, PP! Concise directions, excellent photographs.
I wonder if it would be worth posting a photo of an INCORRECTLY assembled bolt, so folks could see what a bolt should NOT look like?
Hi, Tiriaq! :)
I'm still wondering if I could do this with a riveted one. I don't own any unrivetted bolts so it would be difficult for me to say it cannot be done :redface: One thing for sure, though: I'll never force one of my precious bolts into this!:eek:
If someone has already accomplished that feat without popping his head off, please report to the headquarters fast!:eek: We want to hear from you BEFORE you try anything else! ;)
PP.
 
PM your email address to me, and I will see if I can take a reasonable photo of a lurking Mk.III bolt, just waiting for the unwary shooter to force it into his rifle and......
 
Update!

Thanks guys!
However, I have an update on the unpinned bolts by Tiriaq that is quite chilling: he sent me two pics of an actual unpinned M-10 bolt that has been reassembled WRONG!
From what I understand, there is no real effort in reassembling an unpinned bolt in the wrong way. The only problem is when one tries to put it back in the rifle, but, given enough ham-fisted stubbornness it can be done with potentially deadly results.
The bolthead doesn't lock but engages just enough to permit firing pin spring tension to be established and pressure of the trigger can fire the primer!:eek:

IMG_0991.jpg


IMG_0990.jpg


After studying these images and discussing with Tiriaq, I came to the conclusion that there can be a sure-fire way of knowing if your bolt has been reassembled correctly:
-Make sure that there are no ammo left in the magazine and action.
-Pull back on the bolt; you should feel a definite tension working against the opening. This is caused by the camming of the rotating bolthead against the firing pin spring.
-Open the bolt fully, then slide it closed but do not push the bolt past the resistance point which cams the bolthead and makes it rotate back into its lug recesses.
-Press the trigger with the barrel pointing downwards. If correctly reassembled, the bolt will snap shut from the firing spring thrust and rotation of the lugs.
-Now that the action is relaxed, pull the bolt back.You should need a fair amount of muscle to open it, cam the spring into compression and rotate the lugs open.

I hope BadgerDog includes this update in the Milsurp Knowledge Base.
PP.:)
 
Last edited:
PerversPépère said:
I hope BadgerDog includes this update in the Milsurp Knowledge Base.

Updated........ :)

Excellent article and terrific collaboration between tiriaq and yourself. I don't think I've ever seen an explanation in any of the forums about this deadly Ross rifle phenomenon before.

Thanks guys........ :)

Regards,
Badger
 
BadgerDog said:
Updated........ :)

Excellent article and terrific collaboration between tiriaq and yourself. I don't think I've ever seen an explanation in any of the forums about this deadly Ross rifle phenomenon before.

Thanks guys........ :)

Regards,
Badger
Tiriaq has a lot of experience and he's a seasoned gunsmith.
I think he has many Ross rifles, too. Experience can't be bought, only shared.
PP.:)
 
There are a wide variety of actions which use a bolt sleeve or carrier, and a separate bolthead which is rotated by a camming action to lock. The designs are as varied as the 1895 Mannlicher, the Remington Models 8, 81, 760, 742, the AK and AR series, and on and on. The M-10 Ross is unusual in that it its the only one that can be assembled in such a manner that the bolthead does not rotate to the locked position.
Ross was sued for damages, and paid settlements. There are reports of blown bolts under active service conditions during the Great War. The descriptions of the injuries are chilling: the bolt assembly can be driven into the cheek bone below the eyesocket.
The Ross is a very strong action. Assuming that the 90 year old rifle is sound, there is no reason why it should not be used. It is very easy to tell if the bolt is assembled properly - the bolthead will be the better part of an inch out from the bolt sleeve when the bolt is inserted into the rifle, and you will be able to see the head rotate to lock. PP has described how the action will operate when the bolt is correctly assembled. If you are not all that familiar with the design, PP's excellent instructions show how the bolt can be stripped, and how to reassemble it.
I have no hesitation about shooting Ross rifles with the 1910 action. I have never been able to install an incorrectly assembled bolt into a rifle; I've never used a lot of force either. If a person has basic familiarity with the design, there is no risk of a mishap.
 
I bought a Ross last year that was incorrectly assembled...it looked "different" and I noticed that the bolt head wouldn't rotate into the locking lugs . I took it apart and reassembled it correctly with help from the book, The Ross Rifle ...and some of the above mention gentlemen .
Thanks for the article PerversPepere...I'll be printing that out for future reference .
Anyone got an extra "...special retainer washer with outside projection and two locating nubs on its surface...."?? I could use one .
 
That is frightening - a Ross circulating in that condition. If you had not noticed, the results of attempting to fire the rifle could have been disasterous.
 
Hey, ya gotta be careful. Not much problem at ALL to instal an incorrectly-assembled bolt into a Ross. (I'm not gonna tell you the easy way in case somebody trties it!)

Only thing to do is CHECK every Ross that is handed to you. Easiest way is to use the "Rule of Thumb": if your thumb fits between the bolt sleeve and the bolt-head, when the bolt is open, it's safe. Correct clearance here is about an inch. IF the bolt is assembled wrong, clearance here will be under a quarter-inch: VERY obvious at a glance.

And always remember: it CANNOT get out of whack by itself: it takes a meddling HUMAN to assemble it wrong. Assemble it right and it stays that way.

As with PP, I have been shooting Rosses for many years and have no hesitation at all in using them.
 
My father tells two stories about Rosses.

In one instance back in the early '50's he did a fee-for-service job at a dealer in Vanier (maybe Globe Firearms). He warned the dealer that his Rosses were not pinned, and that would leave the dealer liable. So, for the pick of the litter he stripped each rifle, disassembled the bolt, drilled them with a jig and pinned the heads. He knew what do to because he previously consulted a RCEME armourer, who learned the drilling jig and pinning technique in the service.

The second story is how he went to the World Shooting Championships in Moscow about 1954. He signed up for the moving game match, was told to stand in line behind 'that truck' and sign for a rifle. He was given a WWI Ross rebarreled to 7.62x54R and a box of reduced power ammunition. He said the bullet was much lighter because it was strictly a paper puncher.
 
Important addendum!!!

I went on Gunboards forum and one of the subjects delved into the M-10 Ross peculiarities and the infamous "bolt not locking" problem.
So I started there the same thread we have been discussing here, with the pics and additions.
And a Gunboards member added a comment I found to be of the utmost importance. I sent it right away to BadgerDog so he could uddate the thread in the "Milsurp Knowledge Base" section.
Here it is:

" The bolt of an unriveted M-10 does NOT need to be disassembled to cause the bolthead to not rotate.

If you pull the bolt from the rifle, you will notice (assuming the bolt is in the correct way to begin with) the bolthead rotate and extend from the bolt sleeve--if you don't, you have a problem!
Pull the bolt from the rifle, the bolthead may snap back into the sleeve--probably will, in fact.
Grasp the bolthead and pull and rotate it back out as it should be to insert it into the rifle. It'll sort of snap into a small detent.
NOW...if you continue to rotate the bolthead the same direction about 1/8 of a turn, suddenly the bolthead will snap back into the bolt sleeve. However, notice that the threaded lugs are now very nearly in the same position as they are when the sleeve is extended.

With a little fiddling, the bolt can be inserted into the rifle.

Of course, with the bolthead retracted, it's not going to turn into the receiver, it'll simply close without locking.
Pull the trigger in this state, and GunNutz is out a member."
I think this can explain a lot of the accidents that happened when the bolts were not riveted to prevent the bolthead to go 180 degrees.
This could be avoided by looking to make sure the gas port was turned upwards when in the retracted position but, in combat zones, there were many instances where that simple check could be skipped...
PP.
 
Last edited:
great work guys. My only concern is that you have done such a fantastic job of explaining the peculiarities of the M10 bolt that you've taken some of the fear out of my favorite rifle.LOL. I am concerned that eventually the rest of the world will catch on to what we know (.e Ross Rifles are a joy to own, strong as they come and drive tacks) and then the prices will go up and I still don't have enough of them yet.
 
Back
Top Bottom