Ross M10 Bolt removal

kaos

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Hey All- Just got a new to me (Honestly! I'm not really over 100!) rifle, one being a Ross M10! However, the bolt is jammed open. Short of taking it apart, any known issues with the bolt, apart from the sticky which I read? Missing one picture & it might have worked for me. I see the tab that gets flipped to a center position, then it looks like the rear sights come off. I'm stuck there & really don't want to force anything. What's the trick to pulling the sights off? The one screw on the left hand side?


I should mention there are some threads on a bolt that was put in incorrectly & slipped keeping the action opened. Smellie said to flip the tab out to the side & wiggle the bolt out, but it's jammed stuck..:(
 
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The rear sights don't need to come off to remove the bolt, so there is some other problem.

I suspect maybe the bolt head has partially retracted as you were pulling it out causing it to get stuck.
 
Yea, from reading I suspect that as well. Just hope someone could offer some advice on what way to go. I didn't do it though! :)
 
If the bolt is really stuck like that you'll probably have to give a swift pull and it should be enough to dislodge it.

But I am just assuming that this is the problem... Based on the fact that you can't push it back in.
 
Not so sure about that- another thing mentioned in forums I've searched also mention you can damage the stop by pulling back too hard.. so i dunno. I can see the bolt trying to rotate, but it looks like that action is what jams it up. Tried rotating it with a small screwdriver, but no luck..
 
Can you post some pics of the bolt so maybe we can figure it out?

The mag cutoff/boltstop should click down to the middle position and then the bolt should slide out.

Is the back of the mag bent up maybe and it's jamming on the bolthead? My ross had a similar problem which probably occured when someone inserted the bolt with the bolthead turned which then cought and bent the back of the mag. If you suspect that may be the problem remove the action screws and pull the trigger guard and mag out and then try to remove the bolt.
 
If you dont figure it out by Friday, I can come over and help out. Im from Toronto, and have 3 ross M10's. I'll be passing by Ajax on friday.

I would leave it alone unless you know what your doing/you are 100% sure what is causing the jam. It may get worse or you may end up chipping/breaking something. My guess is that someone tried to ram the bolt in and the bolt rode on top of the rails instead of inside them.
 
Sure thing. The tab is is out to the side..

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If you dont figure it out by Friday, I can come over and help out. Im from Toronto, and have 3 ross M10's. I'll be passing by Ajax on friday.

I would leave it alone unless you know what your doing/you are 100% sure what is causing the jam. It may get worse or you may end up chipping/breaking something. My guess is that someone tried to ram the bolt in and the bolt rode on top of the rails instead of inside them.

Hey, thank's for the offer! Regrettably I'm out Friday, but if I don't get it sorted, perhaps some other time...

It's actually smooth for the very little forward/aft movement it has. I don't think its something quite like that. I *think* what's happening is the bolt is rotating, but the gears are jamming... what it kinda feels like anyways...
 
If this gun is a military M10, then the slot that is visible in the lower left quadrant of the bolt face should be on the lower right. It's the groove the ejector slides through to eject the spent casing. Somehow the bolt head has rotated into "locked/in battery" position while in the action. Other evidence demonstrating the fact that it's in battery position is that the firing pin is protruding. I have no idea how this has happened....... though... directly in front of where the bolt head is there should be a spring loaded triangular shaped flat ejector that slides in and out of a notch in the receiver in line with the left rail - left side of the action if viewed from the back. It looks like that's missing on this gun, or possibly jammed back in the receiver with rust, old grease or dirt. I don't have a ross in front of me at the moment, but in theory that ejector being absent might allow the bolt head to rotate?

Disclaimer - There are a very few commercial sporting rosses that orient their lugs vertically when being cycled, but this doesn't look like one of them. I'm not familiar enough to say definitively, but it doesn't look like any I've seen with the vertical lug configuration.


Anyways, some possible solutions:
1) strip down the gun - action out of stock, trigger group and mag off the gun, rear sight off - this'll give you full unobstructed view of what's happening. Post pictures so we can see properly.
- To remove the rear sight bridge (all the metal above the action that the rear sight is mounted on can be removed as one piece) unscrew the two screws on the top left of the bridge that're in line with the long axis of the gun and flush with the metal surface, and the two screws on the right of the bridge low down, or possibly below the wood line of the stock.
2) If the bolt head did slip, you might be able to rotate it back the way it came. I use the word might because some dicknugget may have slammed it in there and using that kind of force may damage things. If it can be rotated, the ross bolt pulls forward and rotates at the same time. It's usually pretty stiff, so might be difficult with any additional resistance.
3) removing all the additional parts (mag, trigger group and rear sight especially) might help remove the bolt.... at least it'll be less stuff to hang up on and get in your way.

Finally - Make sure to check the bolt and action over when you finally remove it. Something's wrong with the gun somehow... since ross bolts can be disassembled wrong, it's possible that it might be on this rifle, especially considering whoever last owned it doesn't seem to have been especially technologically gifted.

And since I'm typing, My 2C..... I have no idea how or why, but it seems like rosses attract absolute idiots :p I'm not referring to you OP, I'm referring to the faceless individuals that manage to blow their rosses up, shear bolt lugs, jam their actions and otherwise demolish them. I collect M10's and have never had a problem with them, yet somehow every fudd and his girlfriend/sister has been involved in a ross blowing up or otherwise malfunctioning.

Oh, and here's what happens when you assemble the bolt wrong:

 
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Looks as if someone has forced the bolt assembly into the rifle with the locking lugs vertical, rather than horizontal. This has been done before, and the bolt really gets jammed. Have only cleared one rifle that had been messed up this way, and truth be told, I have forgotten how I did it. I know that I stripped the rifle, sight bridge and trigger mechanism off.
 
Here's a few things that may help...

1913 Ross MkIII Rifle Manual (click here)http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=25904

Handbook for the Canadian Service Rifle
Stripping, Assembling and Tools (Parts 1 and 2)
Format: 43 pages with diagrams

(Click PIC to Enlarge)

(Click PIC to Enlarge)

There's also an outstanding article by "PerversPépère ", on Ross M-10 Rifle Bolt Disassembly (click here)http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=12 and the dangers of doing it incorrectly. It may be found under the Technical Articles for Milsurp Collectors and Re-loaders (click here)http://www.milsurps.com/content.php...esearch-for-milsurp-collectors-and-re-loaders forum of the Milsurp Knowledge Libraries. .........

Regards,
Doug
 
Looks as if someone has forced the bolt assembly into the rifle with the locking lugs vertical, rather than horizontal. This has been done before, and the bolt really gets jammed. Have only cleared one rifle that had been messed up this way, and truth be told, I have forgotten how I did it. I know that I stripped the rifle, sight bridge and trigger mechanism off.

Thanks tiriaq- Well, its in there vertical... I see a screwdriver in my future...lol Thanks for the diagrams. I'll be getting more familiar with those over tonight!
 
Thanks tiriaq- Well, its in there vertical... I see a screwdriver in my future...lol Thanks for the diagrams. I'll be getting more familiar with those over tonight!
The bolt have been definitly forced in locked position.... Removing the sight bridge would be great BUT the bridge is held in place with 4 screws, 2 on top and 2 on the right side. No problem removing the top screws but the side screws cant be removed with the stock in place(at least on my Ross) and you cant remove stock since the bolt stop you from removing the screw that hold the rear of trigger guard in place.... The way i see it, the bolt must be backed out the same way was put in. I would suggest using a wood dowel thru the barrel and very carefully hammer the bolt back. I think its better this way then hammering the bolt handle even if that would probably work also.

Joce
 
The bolt have been definitly forced in locked position.... Removing the sight bridge would be great BUT the bridge is held in place with 4 screws, 2 on top and 2 on the right side. No problem removing the top screws but the side screws cant be removed with the stock in place(at least on my Ross) and you cant remove stock since the bolt stop you from removing the screw that hold the rear of trigger guard in place.... The way i see it, the bolt must be backed out the same way was put in. I would suggest using a wood dowel thru the barrel and very carefully hammer the bolt back. I think its better this way then hammering the bolt handle even if that would probably work also.



Joce

I'll be giving it a go tonight. It's been fudd'ed, but all the metal looks good. So *hopefully* I'll be able to get to the screws on the side as the stocks been altered. Can still see nice dark wood through screw holes..:( As it's my first rifle bigger than a .22, I'll get it up & running. Wish it still had the full stock though. It's bayonet is still about though..:)
 
And since I'm typing, My 2C..... I have no idea how or why, but it seems like rosses attract absolute idiots :p I'm not referring to you OP, I'm referring to the faceless individuals that manage to blow their rosses up, shear bolt lugs, jam their actions and otherwise demolish them. I collect M10's and have never had a problem with them, yet somehow every fudd and his girlfriend/sister has been involved in a ross blowing up or otherwise malfunctioning.

I suspect it's the myth that Rosses are "junk." Bubba buys em cheap and treats them as if they're junk. If you think something is garbage, you're not going to expect it to be one of the most accurate rifles ever made in North America. You're going to beat it up because it doesn't matter.
 
I suspect it's the myth that Rosses are "junk." Bubba buys em cheap and treats them as if they're junk. If you think something is garbage, you're not going to expect it to be one of the most accurate rifles ever made in North America. You're going to beat it up because it doesn't matter.

Lol, they're built like tanks!

Accurate. I've read that. For that, I'll have to kill it just so it won't show my shooting up..;)
 
Kaos- did you say you do have access to all 4 screws holding the sight bridge on?

If so, got a screwdriver tip that fits the slot very well?

Pushing hard, try and get that bridge off. I suspect getting the bolt out after it's out of the way would be fairly easy.

Sadly, your pictures don't work for me, I just see red x's.
 
Not yet no. The muzzle end ones I got out & loosening the barrel from the stock I can access the one on the side by the stock, but the two back screws I bet haven't been out since god knows when. Gonna douse it in wd40 soon & give them a shot tomorrow. If I put any more pressure on them I'd damage the screw heads. Figures it's the most inaccessible ones...
 
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