Rossi 357 Lever carbine

[Ganderite]

I got back to the range to do some load development for my Rossi 357 carbine.


For accuracy testing I installed a 4X scope. It covered the top of the action, so I had to tip the rifle for each shot to get the empty to clear the rifle. OK for testing, but NG going forward. I will use the peep sight.


Someone suggesting a test with full wad cutters to see what the ultimate accuracy of the rifle was. So I loaded some 148 Hollow Base and 148 Double base (solid) with 3.5, 4.0 & 4.5 of 231. 3.5 under the DRG DB solids gave 1.97”. The worst DB load (2.30”) was better than the best HB load (3.0”). This was a shock, given that the swedged Speer HB bullets were double the cost of the DRG solids.


The accuracy was not all that impressive, but not a big deal, since they will not cycle through the rifle. And they did not indicate the best accuracy of the rifle, anyway.


I then switched to the CamPro 158 plated bullets, the bullets I hoped would work well. I tried 4.5 and 5.0 of 231, and the 5.0 looked promising (1.5”). I will try this again and also try 5.5 and 6.0. In a similar velocity range, I will also try 7.0 to 8.5 of 572, because I have an 8 pounder of it.


I started to smile when I started shooting the 158 plated over 2400. 12 and 13 gr were best (1.645” and 1.135”).

14, 15 and 16 left severe stretch marks on the brass, which I tossed, although the accuracy was good.


All testing was done with a Small Rifle primer, the Rem 6 ½. In a previous test I found a huge ES with the Ginex small pistol primer.

 

[Batjuice]

What a great day at the range!

 

[HuskyDude]

Well looks promising!! Great day indeed.

 

[old303]

Good to see you back.

I still have to do workups with 231 and see what I can do about finer accuracy with the .38, having too long been a low-power nerd loading for cowboy and PPC, but found CFE Pistol had the profile I was looking for in a warm-ish .38 Special load behind a plated bullet for ICORE power factor.

Also about to explore Accurate #2 for the softer loads.

 

[just having some fun]

In my rifle I have found in back to back no cleaning shooting different loads/ different powders on the same day the DRG wc/ swc / rfp vs a soft cast larger diameter bullet. the soft cast larger diameter bullet had 1/2 the size group size.

Not sure if it was the Diameter or the very hard lead

 

[Ganderite]

In my rifle I have found in back to back no cleaning shooting different loads/ different powders on the same day the DRG wc/ swc / rfp vs a soft cast larger diameter bullet. the soft cast larger diameter bullet had 1/2 the size group size.

Not sure if it was the Diameter or the very hard lead

I will keep that in mind if I try some other bullets. They will need to be round nose so they will cycle.

 

[Ganderite]

I loaded a new test, based on what appeared to be promising loads in the first test. I made duplicate loads with small rifle and small pistol primers, to see if the big difference was still there.

Went to the range. Waded through knee deep snow to post targets and set up my bags and rifle. I forgot to bring the ammo....

Tomorrow.

 

[C10]

I loaded a new test, based on what appeared to be promising loads in the first test. I made duplicate loads with small rifle and small pistol primers, to see if the big difference was still there.

Went to the range. Waded through knee deep snow to post targets and set up my bags and rifle. I forgot to bring the ammo....

Tomorrow.

Hopefully ya at least had something to shoot while you were there! I can hear the cursing from here!

 

[Longwalker]

I was wondering about the stretch marks with 14-16 gr. of 2400. Seems to duplicate my experience with a Rossi. It would actually stretch cases so much some would separate in half if the pressure was a bit high, even though it was a book load. Quite a 'springy" action. That rifle is gone now, replaced with a Winchester M92.
I just loaded up a bunch of 158 gr. hard cast/GC bullets sized .358" with 12.5gr. 2400, which seems like a good spot to stop adding powder for my current rifle too. I'm using .38 cases with the Lyman 358156 loaded to .357 magnum length. I've been using standard CCI 500 small pistol primers with 2400, as the book recommends. It will be very interesting to see your primer test results with the Remington 6-1/2. .
May I ask at what distance you were shooting those groups?

 

[Ganderite]

I was wondering about the stretch marks with 14-16 gr. of 2400. Seems to duplicate my experience with a Rossi. It would actually stretch cases so much some would separate in half if the pressure was a bit high, even though it was a book load. Quite a 'springy" action. That rifle is gone now, replaced with a Winchester M92.
I just loaded up a bunch of 158 gr. hard cast/GC bullets sized .358" with 12.5gr. 2400, which seems like a good spot to stop adding powder for my current rifle too. I'm using .38 cases with the Lyman 358156 loaded to .357 magnum length. I've been using standard CCI 500 small pistol primers with 2400, as the book recommends. It will be very interesting to see your primer test results with the Remington 6-1/2. .
May I ask at what distance you were shooting those groups?

50 yards. We shot two Rossis in first test. One like 13 gr 2400. the other 12 gr. The new test for my rifle is 12.5, 13 & 13.5. It is a rear locking action, so stretched cases are to be expected as pressures rise. I only need accuracy - not velocity.

 

[Deathrawt]

I loaded a new test, based on what appeared to be promising loads in the first test. I made duplicate loads with small rifle and small pistol primers, to see if the big difference was still there.

Went to the range. Waded through knee deep snow to post targets and set up my bags and rifle. I forgot to bring the ammo....

Tomorrow.

Similar thing happened to me years ago when I got my AR15
Went to the range to finally try it out and got everything set up and no I didn’t forget the ammo but forgot the damn keys for the trigger lock! My friend just laughed at me endlessly
I was so pissed…

 

[DiMP]

Similar thing happened to me years ago when I got my AR15
Went to the range to finally try it out and got everything set up and no I didn’t forget the ammo but forgot the damn keys for the trigger lock! My friend just laughed at me endlessly
I was so pissed…

An exact scenario to this is what made me replace all my keyed locks with combo locks!

 

[Ganderite]

I returned to the range with the test ammo. Shot 50 yards, indoors off a sandbag. Rifle is scoped with a 4X ScopeChief.

I used the CamPro 158RN plated bullet for all shooting. I tested Win 572 and 2400 powders.

2400 is a good powder for higher velocity and accuracy.

572 is a new powder. One step slower than 231. I have 8 pounds of it looking for an application….

I loaded the 572 7gr, 7.5gr & 8 gr. 5 rounds of each, loaded with the Ginex small pistol primer and the Remington 6 ½ small rifle primer.

The 2400 loads also had a group each with the two primers. 12.5gr, 13 gr & 13.5 gr.

The first thing I noticed was that there was no consistent indication that one primer was any better than the other. Makes me wonder if the big ES is saw earlier was the chrono acting up.

This test was shot by two different Rossi 92s, bought as a pair recently from Marstar. Both have scopes. Accuracy results in both rifles was similar, except my buddy’s rifle prefers a half grain powder more than mine.

Also, my rifle started to stretch brass with the hotter loads. His does not.

My rifle likes 7.5gr of 572 – about 1350 fps and 12.5gr 2400 – about 1450 fps. Groups are 2.5” to 3.0”

Now I will take the scope off and shoot with the peep sight. Brass does not eject with the scope above the receiver.

 

[old303]

The Hodgdon site is only showing 572 in 357 Magnum as a pistol round, and says 6.5 to 7.4 grains behind a plated 158gr bullet, so you're up at the warm side. Probably no sense checking for accuracy down at 6.5, after finding your rifle likes the middle of the three you tested.

But with it liking the bottom of the three in 2400 it might be worth trying another data point downwards.

Where do you have 50 yards indoors? I've only seen 25 yard indoor ranges closer to the GTA.

 

[Ganderite]

Went back to the Guelph range today for the final test with a scope. All loads were the CamPro 158 RN.

5.5 - 231

This sounded very mild. Group is 1.4"




7.5 - 572

This grouped 1.7" I will try 7.0, because brass has a mild stretch mark.





12.0 - 2400

This grouped 2.0" Also a mild stretch mark. I suspect excess head space.


After this test I took the scope off and shot a few groups just using the peep sight. Results were good. Lighting indoors is poor compared to outside. I need to move the front sight just a CH right to be bang on at 50 yards.

 

[Ganderite]

2000 more Campro 158's on order. Purolator shipping was only $15. But when I checked on the web, estimated shipping was $116. I called to complain and he said that is the Can Post website doing the quoting. He said he could do better by doing it manually. Something to note when ordering online.

I have a few thousand lead 158SWC bullets on hand, so ran a test with them. Nothing spectacular seen, except near the end of the shoot I noticed that my peep sight, mounted on the bolt, came back and hit the bottom of the scope bell. This probably cause errors with all the testing I have done.

So scope is coming off and I will load 5.5 -231, 7.0 - 572 and 12.0 2400 because that load does not stretch my brass.

 

[Ganderite]

Went back to the range to zero the rifle with the peep sight.

The first group was a bit high and a bit right. I turned the sight down one revolution and that was about it. (See right hand target)

Then I tapped the front sight about 1mm right, and that centered the group. To finish, I tried shooting standing. I could still hit the target.

Standing is left target above.

I tried both lead158SWC and lead 158 Round Nose. The RN bullets fed absolutely perfectly. The SWC shot slightly smaller groups, but did not feed 100% smoothly.

Load was 7.0 gr of 572, which is a medium power 357 load. Lots of noise and some recoil. According to the book I can load heavier, but in my rifle I get case stretching. No problem with heavier loads in my buddy's rifle.


I like the peep sight. The other easy option would have been to put a red dot on the rail, but the peep seems more authentic for the rifle. If anyone wants the rail for a Rossi 92, I can mail mine. $15 shipped.