Rubber bullet survivor speaks out (original incident circa 1970s Northern Ireland)

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-foyle-west-22848421

Rubber bullets: Army kept real dangers in NI hidden
The details were found in declassified Ministry of Defence papers The details were found in declassified Ministry of Defence papers
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Soldier who blinded man forgiven

Soldiers used rubber bullets in Northern Ireland at a time when they knew they were more dangerous than had been disclosed, a human rights group has said.

The details were found in declassified Ministry of Defence (MoD) papers, according to the Pat Finucane Centre.

They contain legal advice for the MoD to seek a settlement over a Londonderry boy blinded by a rubber bullet in 1972.

An MoD spokesman said lessons had been learned from the events of that period.

Richard Moore from Derry was blinded at the age of 10 when a soldier fired a rubber bullet into his face.

According to the Pat Finucane Centre, one document written in 1977 said a court case would expose the problems with the bullets and make it harder for the MoD to fight future cases involving rubber bullets.
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Plastic bullets, introduced after the problems with the 37mm rubber bullets were brought to light. Still the Plastic bullets were killing people when misused by LEO's.

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The original 37mm rubber bullets - saw one a friend brought over from England back in the day - at the time it looked pretty formidable, today I would consider giving one as a gift to a girl I liked! :p

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There is in existence, in dusty old archives in the UK, a ghastly movie showing a test of a 37mm rubber bullet against a suspended live pig at close range. Reportedly the rubber bullet penetrated the skin of the pig & lodged in between 2 of the ribs. Obviously, the energy of the round was significant to do this. The base of the round according to the person who saw the movie was sticking out about an inch or two from the chest of the pig.
 
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Originally the doctrine was that it should only be fired at the trunk of the body or perhaps the legs, but never at the head. The Army quickly developed a concern that the "baton round" was dangerously powerful and when I trained for a NIreland deployment in the mid 1980s was still compensating by directing that it was not to be fired directly at a person but instead at an angle at the ground guesstimated to produce a ricochet hit. I never liked the idea and fortunately didn't have to use it.

If I recall correctly, in the case of the boy who was blinded he was hit in the head by a round that was ricocheted off the ground.
 
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I thought the same thing. You would have to search long and hard to find a soldier who would deliberately fire a rubber bullet into a child's face.
That is the problem with ricochets, you can never be sure where they will end up.
 
Here is an entry from the blogiverse in which one man gives his opinion on the useage of these munitions over in Ireland etc.

http://www.sott.net/article/233289-Where-The-Rubber-Hits-The-Road

As part of this training during the last 30 years of the 20th century, British soldiers and the sectarian Northern Ireland police force (the RUC) fired thousands of 'rubber bullets' or 'baton rounds' (as they were later called) at unsuspecting members of the Irish community. At least 18 people were killed by these 'non-lethal' rounds, including 8 children, and hundreds more were left paralyzed, brain damaged and blind.

© Unknown
Emma Groves' daughter, Maura, holds the rubber bullet that blinded her mother
The first 'baton rounds' were made of teak wood and used in the crown colony of Hong Kong during periods of intense labor strikes and anti-British protests in the 1960′s. These wooden rounds were deemed "too dangerous" for use in Northern Ireland, so hard rubber was used instead, with no less lethality however. A case in point: Emma Groves, an Irish Catholic, was sitting in her home one evening when British soldiers were conducting raids in the area. Emma was apparently playing the song 'Four Green Fields' loudly on her record player when a British soldier fired a rubber bullet through the window from about 10 feet away striking Emma in the face. She was blinded.
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I never got the whole Irish / British thing. The dark underbelly of the "protector of the faith" - Oh well, as long as those euro loonies keep it over there.
 
I knew a South African who served his mandatory 2 year service during political unrest times. The Army was being utilized to police demonstrations that had been violent. They were also instructed to fire "baton" rounds into the ground in front of crowds of people to disperse them. Out of frustration, they too fired directly into the crowd...to disperse them:(.
 
I bet the guy in Van some years ago would prefer a flash bang bouncing off his nads rather than a 37mm baton round bouncing off his nads.

(time for some comic relief).


Fwiw I'm glad the bloody thing bounced off before it "cashed out" - I don't know the identity of this poor fellow but from the vid clip it looks like he was the victim of circumstances & was mainly trying to mind his own business - however the clip has obviously been edited.

The following blog has a foreign language story about flash-stun grenade injuries sustained by journalist Guy Smallman.

http://www.ssi-media.com/pigbrother/Report2003Part2.htm

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relax, the foreign language filters out a lot of the tinfoil.

Here is what I think is the problem:

The constables are very poorly educated about what flash powder is and what it's characteristics are.

The: "Call of Duty" problem - tunnel vision & amped up on tacticool juice.

I know what it feels like, having been a relatively ignorant squaddie in my early 20s.

The higher officers in charge of the training for their employees used to play this fast and loose game with regards to Chemical warfare as an admittedly subjective example. We didn't get any training that I would call really useful to ignorant squaddies in their early 20s, maybe with the exception of how to use the respirator, atropine injectors, and decontamination mitt. That's the way the game was played though. Need to know / training requirements / not wishing to: "scare" the personnel? It can add up to a perfect storm when the shtf.
 
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Mike Webb said:
I thought the same thing. You would have to search long and hard to find a soldier who would deliberately fire a rubber bullet into a child's face.
That is the problem with ricochets, you can never be sure where they will end up.
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That's what bothered me about it. Using lethal force when we meant to use lethal force would cause enough problems. Producing lethal results with the intent to use non-lethal force seemed worse to me.
 
Brutus said:
I don't think it's prudent to use G20 as an example of proper riot control. Recent court rulings reflect that too.
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That is fair. I only commented on it because Cdn303 brought it up. In a more competent world the ones actually rioting would be the ones getting the attention, as they should.


Mark
 
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