Ruger 10/22 Standard vs. Winchester Wildcat .22LR Varminter

Mr. Friendly

Mr. Friendly

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I know the Ruger is very popular, but can't seem to find much in the way of info on the Winchester. it may be a comparison of apples to oranges in the sense of one's semi-auto while the other is bolt action, they both shoot .22LR, which is all that's mattering to me.

the Winchester Varminter costs $50 more then the Ruger, but has a more comprehensive package in the sense that it comes with 1x5 round clip and 3x10 round clips as well as the bull barrel. it boggles my mind that they think adding a bull barrel and a Laminate stock is worth $200 more on the Ruger Varminter. :(

edit - I just read that the Win Wildcat is a redone Toz 78. does anyone in Canada sell Toz?
 
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well, considering the lack of response, I guess I'm going to have to buy both and then test them out and post review marks about em so if this ever comes up again, I can answer! ;) I do apologize for making it look like a review rather then the question it was supposed to be...

I'm taking my PAL next week, so I'm at least 60 days away from having my license to purchase, so I've been posting a lot, putting out feelers on what I should buy as my plinker/trainer rifle.
 
Well, I own a Ruger 10/22 and a Toz and would have to say that the TOZ is much more accurate.
The 10/22 is great fun with the 25 rounders in it for blasting away and the TOZ is simply a real nice bolt action rifle to shoot. If I want to put a lot of holes quickly in a tin can, the 10/22. If I want to put one hole, dead centre in the can, the TOZ.
But, you are correct in them being totally different animals and you simply must buy both. :D
I think Epps has the TOZ now?
 
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If your budget can cover it, a CZ 452 would be a good choice. Seems some people have had Ruger 10/22's and they were deadly accurate, and others find them not so. There sure are a lot of interesting options in 22's. Remington, Marlin and others have popular auto's as well you should look at.
 
hey Grizz, I don't think I could afford to shoot an auto, being I'd need the more expensive ammunition and I don't have loads of money to spend. semi-auto's need a higher powered .22, to ensure proper cycling...and it's either $300 for a case of 5000 higher powered vs. $150ish for a case of 5000 of standard American Eagle.

the Winchester Wildcat is beginning to look more and more attractive now...in the vein of being a shooter with cheap ammo.
 
It will certainly accept any kind of 22 rimfire ammo you feed it and probably shoot them all more accurately than any semi auto. I'd had a few semi auto's and never found them that picky for feeding properly (Cooey 64 and a Squires Bingham M16 look alike), but they weren't astonishingly accurate either. I think if your standard is alway hit a dime at 50 yards, you'd be best off with that bolt action rifle and a good scope and rings.
 
Grizz, I look forward to reading your posts. your thoughts are always friendly, informative and I've noticed you take a think first and be patient approach with how you answer people and their questions. I'm new to the forums I know, but I'd like to express my appreciation! :D

one last question for you. I'm going to get the Winchester Wildcat .22 Varminter, that's settled. what scope/rings would you recommend to go with it?
 
I've had pretty good results with my Ruger 10/22 Target model. It shoots the cheap American Eagle 40 grain solids fairly well. It really does well though with the far more expensive Lapua Super club. But... for most applications the Eagle ammo is very good (It'll still shoot centre of tin can without any issues :D). The difference is more do you want one smaller even hole, or one large ragged hole?

I'd probably go with the CZ over the ToZ. The next pay hike gets you into the Kimber, Anshutz 64 territory or the Cooper models. About twice as much though as the CZ452.

The only thing that I don't like about the CZ452 is the safety. It feels flimsy. When I tried one out, I thought I was going to break it. Otherwise a very nicely built rifle at a good price.
 
What kind of budget do you have for the scope? Is the gun for all around use where a variable would be helpful? Seems like variables dominate the shelves these days.

If I could sort of generalize, 22 scopes seem to span the greatest range of price and quality you'll ever find. You can pick up a very wide range of scopes in the less than $150 range that will make most of us happy, but none will be high quality, but that may not really matter to you (or me). If I'm out deer hunting and spend 3 days waiting for my one shot, I've got a lot invested in that scope and rings being dead on repeatable accurate. On the other hand if I buy an $80.00 Bushnell for my 22 and 9/10 its still dead on, but the odd time I have some adjustments to make and during those adjustments it doesn't seem to alway track smoothly, I can live with that.

If you are going to shoot rabbits and gophers and squirrels and prairie chickens, you are going to want something that can go down to a low range of magnification, like 2-4x. If you are strictly shooting gophers at a distance, or targets at 50 yards or more, you'll appreciate lots of magnification and a sharp image. So I'd say a variable with a top end of at least 9x for that use.

I am very happy with a 4.5-14 x 40 AO scope I put on a 223 rifle and I'm going to put another on my CZ 452 bolt action rifle. The scope is made by a company called Meuller. The cost around $190.00 and have a really nice clear image. I have a 3-9x40 Bushnell AO (adjustable objective ) scope on it now, and I don't like the image quality. I guess I'm a bit spoiled.

The adjustable objective is nice because rimfires are often shot at close range and expectations of accuracy are very high, and adjustable objective allow you to reduce the error causes by parallax, that's moving your eye causing the apparent point of aim to change. Scopes for centrefire rifles usually are not AO, and are set for distances beyond that which rimfires will be used, so they may not be suitable for shooting a 22 at close distance.

There are guys on here who like their $100 tasco varmints that are 6-24 magnification, but they do say the image is blurry at the top end of the zoom. I've never used one, so I can't comment personally. None of these scopes are really high quality (aside from the Mueller, which I would say is sort of in the mid ground), but you may well be quite satisfied.

As for rings, I like steel rings. They are hard, tough, and the screws can be tightened properly without stripping. There are others, but I can say I've used Leupold and Burris rings and am very satisfied with them. Some of the 22 scopes come with rings, such as the one's you typically see under the counter at Walmart and Canadian Tire.

If you have the budget, get something good right off the bat. If not, buy something to get by, and save some money until you can afford something that will do that nice rifle justice. It should be a real tack driver. If its got iron sights, perhaps shoot with those until you can afford a good scope and rings.
 
Here's a thread on my experiences with my 10/22.

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=198975

I'll be putting a Falcon Menace 4-14x 44mm scope with MP20 reticle on this rifle. This scope allows you to adjust parrallex down to rimfire ranges. Excellent glass and should work well.

As Grizzlypeg posted:
Yes get a parrallex adjustable scope that goes down to rimfire ranges. It makes life a lot easier. Plus you can use the full magnification of the scope. my 3-9x 40mm Burris was limited to 6x at 20 yards because it was a centerfire scope. Great glass, great scope but more suited for my 243 hunting rifle. Also rings. The Weaver ones are crap. I'll be getting rid of them. Leupold or Burris will replace them. Finally the trigger will need work.

I may eventually buy a CZ452 American just to try my hand at refinishing a stock. Also it's a decent rimfire.

I really can't complain about my Ruger 10/22. It's a very good rifle. While bolts may be more accurate (milleage will vary), it's still a lot of fun to shoot, 10 rounds, 25 rounds or 50 rounds free hand at small targets and watch them all fold down. A semi is a lot more fun than with a bolt action for this type of shooting :D
 
I have a budget about about $200...maybe up to $300 if there's a particularly good deal new/used that should be considered.

can you give me the exact model name of your Meuller scope you mentioned?

I hope to hunt grouse & rabbits with the .22LR once I'm sure of my shooting and accuracy, so I can definitely see the need for having the optics that will allow me to succeed.

now that you know my budget, you know my rifle, recommendations can be more accurate. and yes, I'd be interested in a variable 3-9x30?40?50? that will suit my target and small game/upland bird hunting.

thank you everyone! sure wish the forums had a kudos function...let you pop ratings to show your appreciation! :D
 
Its a Mueller APV, 4.5-14 x 40 AO. I like the fact its very clear image allows me to see the 22 caliber holes (223) in paper at 200 yards.
 
I was browsing thru Wolverine Supplies and they have a combo kit for both the Burris Fullfield II & their Landmark spotting scope:
http://www.wolverinesupplies.com/default.asp?Pg=11&do=1&FIID=33
and
the Fullfield II & their 8x32 Landmark binoculars:
http://www.wolverinesupplies.com/default.asp?Pg=11&do=1&FIID=34

while more then my stated $300, I know I will also be out on the watch for a spotting scope and/or binoculars. that said, is the Fullfield II by itself worth consideration?

and if I may ask Grizz, where did you buy your Meuller scope from? and does it cost money to have the exporting/import papers to bring in a rifle scope? if not, it might be worth my time to fill out the paperwork and have it brought through, as it's $80 more from the only CDN retailer listed on the Meuller website, and that's a heck of a premium to pay, when our dollar is almost par to the US.
 
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum...d.php?t=198975

Burris Fullfield II is an excellent scope especially for the price. But.... not for rimfire. Click on the above link. You'll notice I have that scope on my Ruger 10/22. Great scope but again no parrallex adjustment. Your sight picture has to be perfect which just adds to the difficulty in making small groups. Even more difficult with a bolt action than a semi since you move your head after each shot.

Now if you're planning on being outside a lot and are interested in good accuracy but not necessarily small groups on paper. Then yes the Fullfield would be a good scope. I've seen it for $200 NIB. Get the one with the ballistic plex if you go this route.

Avoid the package deal. Save up and later on get a Pentax spotting scope. You'll be happier in the long run.

When I get the Falcon menace scopes I'll be putting one on a rimfire. I'll post how it works out. Those scopes are $383. Reviews have been excellent.
 
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I have one of that exact Fullfield II scope. I like it, but its not adjustable objective and it would be set up for over 100 yards to be parallax free. It might not be ideal for a rimfire with most shots at say 10-50 yards. I hate to badmouth anything without firsthand experience, but before you consider that combo, make sure you know the bino's or spotting scope is up to Burris quality. I seem to recall some reports that people were not happy with the spotting scope.

The guys in the states that post on Rimfire central, love the Mueller apv on their rimfires for general plinking, but then again as you have mentioned, they get them at a much better price than we do. I'm still not sure I've seen a better value in an adjustable objective even at the Canadian price of $190.00.
 
hey Epox, your link doesn't work... :runaway:

and what exactly allows for the parallax adjustment? what am I looking for to know whether a scope has it or not? and...sorry for all the questions...why does the rimfire need the parallax, while it seems, from what's been said I'm surmising, centerfire does not?
 
Parallax adjustment is done typically with an Adjustable Objective. It is also conveniently done by a side focus knob on some scopes as well. On an adjustable objective scope you turn the objective bell of the scope (the one that faces the object being looked at) to both focus the image and eliminate parallax at that distance. The advantage of adjustable parallax is eliminating the error caused by the eye not being in the same position each time you take a shot. The disadvantage is that focus and parallax on these scopes will need to be changed at varying distances. Not that great for some hunting scenarios where the game could need to be quickly sighted on.

Rimfire scopes that are not adjustable objective, simply have the parallax preset at 50 yards. This simplifies things and is certainly a reasonable choice. You will also find they tend to be in sharp focus at a wide range of distances, as opposed to the AO scopes that need constant adjustment. That said, I prefer an AO, and wish I could justify spending the money on a good quality side focus scope, but those are pricey.
 
I was thinking that's it was something solved via the adjustment knobs on the scope, but as I've said before, while I'm decent with optics in relation to astronomy, using them for purposes aside from that I'm not so up on, as there are a few different considerations besides the basics. :rolleyes:
 
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