Rusted Shut
- Thread starter 4ron
- Start date
Cheap rust removal for small parts. Salt and vinegar.
Dissolve as much salt as will dissolve into room temperature vinegar. Immerse the part. That's the critical bit of info there! Total immersion, or you get a wicked etch line where you have the combination of air salt, and acid (the vinegar). It will bubble real slow as it works, and you may need to scrub the loose stuff off during the process.
I repeat, for the slow ones. All the way under the solution, or do not use this method!
Keep oil out of the mix, it shields the metal and the rust, from the action of the mix.
Try it on a rusted tool or some old bolts before you try it on gun parts if you are not sure. Essentially, it is electrolytic rust removal without an outside voltage source.
Rinse well with hot water, and oil the crap out of it after.
Works well to remove heat treat scale as well.
Cheers
Trev
Dissolve as much salt as will dissolve into room temperature vinegar. Immerse the part. That's the critical bit of info there! Total immersion, or you get a wicked etch line where you have the combination of air salt, and acid (the vinegar). It will bubble real slow as it works, and you may need to scrub the loose stuff off during the process.
I repeat, for the slow ones. All the way under the solution, or do not use this method!
Keep oil out of the mix, it shields the metal and the rust, from the action of the mix.
Try it on a rusted tool or some old bolts before you try it on gun parts if you are not sure. Essentially, it is electrolytic rust removal without an outside voltage source.
Rinse well with hot water, and oil the crap out of it after.
Works well to remove heat treat scale as well.
Cheers
Trev
- Location
- Wolfville, NS
Electrolysis works wonders if done right. You should be able to find lots of sites on it to help out. One of the most important things to remember is to hook up the battery the right way.... if it's backwards, your action will be FUBAR.
An open/ventilated area is good too, the stuff will give off hydrogen in the process of moving ions.
An open/ventilated area is good too, the stuff will give off hydrogen in the process of moving ions.
Electrolysis used for REMOVING rust will also remove steel. What is being described by englishman_ca is CONVERTING the iron oxide to iron phosphate. Phosphate is what is in the dishwasher detergent.
Gee, iron phosphate by another name is called PARKERIZING.....
If you want the most incredible rust remover, Evaporust is by far the best product I have ever used. Non-toxic too.
Here is a thread that discusses things in a lot of detail
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=424033
I have described a few rust removal and "converters" in the following thread, pasted below.
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=419458
CLR is an acid. It will remove rust, bluing and leave a corrosive residue.
Your best bet is to use steel wool and an oil, that way it will remove any buildup above the surface and leave tiny pitts full of rust level with the surrounding surface. The oil will penetrate the remaining rust to prevent it from spreading.
If you want to completely remove the rust, by far the best product is Evapo-Rust, but it needs to soak and will leave rust pits completely empty. Deep pits will look like little craters. It leaves a completley rust free, bare surface and will flash rust in humid conditions.
There are also rust "converters" on the market that deactivate rust and coat it. There are two primary components in a rust converter: a tannin (usually in the form of tannic acid) and an organic polymer. The organic polymer provides a protective primer layer. They are used as a surface prep for painting.
There is another form of rust remover/converter that uses phosphoric acid to convert iron oxide to black iron phosphate. Navel jelly is one example.
If you add zinc and manganese to the phosphoric acid, the resulting chemical reactions chemically create an integral protective layer of insoluble zinc and iron or manganese and iron phosphate crystal. Another name for this is Parkerizing.
Your best bet is to use steel wool and an oil, that way it will remove any buildup above the surface and leave tiny pitts full of rust level with the surrounding surface. The oil will penetrate the remaining rust to prevent it from spreading.
If you want to completely remove the rust, by far the best product is Evapo-Rust, but it needs to soak and will leave rust pits completely empty. Deep pits will look like little craters. It leaves a completley rust free, bare surface and will flash rust in humid conditions.
There are also rust "converters" on the market that deactivate rust and coat it. There are two primary components in a rust converter: a tannin (usually in the form of tannic acid) and an organic polymer. The organic polymer provides a protective primer layer. They are used as a surface prep for painting.
There is another form of rust remover/converter that uses phosphoric acid to convert iron oxide to black iron phosphate. Navel jelly is one example.
If you add zinc and manganese to the phosphoric acid, the resulting chemical reactions chemically create an integral protective layer of insoluble zinc and iron or manganese and iron phosphate crystal. Another name for this is Parkerizing.
tactical870
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Buckhorn, Ontario
I was going to say that too. It will remove all rust (blueing is rust so there's no saving it). Easily the best product I've ever used. Just be sure to wash the parts clean with water (to prevent the sticky residue) immediately after and oil well or you'll have to do it all over again in a day or two.....
I can say with certainty that the parent metal will not be harmed. Providing that you are hooked up to the NEGATIVE terminal.
The other electrode (anode) on the positive terminal will start to erode quite quickly. Tis a variation of an elctroplating bath, only the solution of chemicals does not lend itself to the process. Otherwise, the copper pipe anode on the positive would transfer slowly to the gun cathode hooked to the negative, and copper plate it.
I prooved this to myself as one time I found a copper wash on a barrel that I did, laying next to a length of copper pipe in the rig over the weekend. However, the copper cleaned off easily by rubbing with steel wool. Since then, I use a strip of streel banding from a bundle of lumber.
What can I say? It is so simple to do, and works so well, you just won't believe it!
Now if you want to "antique" a sword blade or similar, hook it to the positive, but don't leave for more than 15 mins at a time, pitting will develope as the material is literaly dissolving. (hence the importance of hooking gun to negative).
So yes, the process will remove BOTH the rust and the blue, it removes everything down to clean bare steel (dark steel grey).
I got the idea from a museum conservator (from a guy who conserves arms and armour). I use it to clean dug relics and rusted antique hand tools. Some of them are just blobs of rust when they go in, but the process will loosen up seized mechanisms. Tools and bayonets can go in there with wood still attached without harm (other than getting wet). I use a 5 gallon pail and a battery charger. Takes me longer to mix up the crystals than it does to set up eveything else. Draino crystals will work too for the solution, but is hard on the hands, you will need rubber gloves.
The only drawback is that the process can do a number on spring steel. Apparantly it will make it go brittle, although I have never had this problem, I run a rig overnight, max. So anything with springs in it should not stay in the rig for extended periods.
I use the same cardboard and plaggy bag tank to clean the bore of a barrel. I use a steel cleaning rod with o-rings insulators slipped over and spaced along its length to stop it touching the bore walls. Stuff it in the barreled action, hook the positive to the rod, negative to the barrel, imerse it in the tank for ten minutes at a time. This way the exterior blue isn't effected. If I am worried about it, I will grease the outside with vasoline or wrap with pvc electrical tape. In one instanced, I painted the outside of a barreled action with Tremclad beforhand and then did the bore. The exterior under the paint was not harmed. The paint cleaned off with stripper in minutes.
I have had barrels wth bores that looked like sewer pipes come clean.
CLR, Naval Jelly and Evaporust are acid solutions. They have their place, but I never find need.
The other electrode (anode) on the positive terminal will start to erode quite quickly. Tis a variation of an elctroplating bath, only the solution of chemicals does not lend itself to the process. Otherwise, the copper pipe anode on the positive would transfer slowly to the gun cathode hooked to the negative, and copper plate it.
I prooved this to myself as one time I found a copper wash on a barrel that I did, laying next to a length of copper pipe in the rig over the weekend. However, the copper cleaned off easily by rubbing with steel wool. Since then, I use a strip of streel banding from a bundle of lumber.
What can I say? It is so simple to do, and works so well, you just won't believe it!
Now if you want to "antique" a sword blade or similar, hook it to the positive, but don't leave for more than 15 mins at a time, pitting will develope as the material is literaly dissolving. (hence the importance of hooking gun to negative).
So yes, the process will remove BOTH the rust and the blue, it removes everything down to clean bare steel (dark steel grey).
I got the idea from a museum conservator (from a guy who conserves arms and armour). I use it to clean dug relics and rusted antique hand tools. Some of them are just blobs of rust when they go in, but the process will loosen up seized mechanisms. Tools and bayonets can go in there with wood still attached without harm (other than getting wet). I use a 5 gallon pail and a battery charger. Takes me longer to mix up the crystals than it does to set up eveything else. Draino crystals will work too for the solution, but is hard on the hands, you will need rubber gloves.
The only drawback is that the process can do a number on spring steel. Apparantly it will make it go brittle, although I have never had this problem, I run a rig overnight, max. So anything with springs in it should not stay in the rig for extended periods.
I use the same cardboard and plaggy bag tank to clean the bore of a barrel. I use a steel cleaning rod with o-rings insulators slipped over and spaced along its length to stop it touching the bore walls. Stuff it in the barreled action, hook the positive to the rod, negative to the barrel, imerse it in the tank for ten minutes at a time. This way the exterior blue isn't effected. If I am worried about it, I will grease the outside with vasoline or wrap with pvc electrical tape. In one instanced, I painted the outside of a barreled action with Tremclad beforhand and then did the bore. The exterior under the paint was not harmed. The paint cleaned off with stripper in minutes.
I have had barrels wth bores that looked like sewer pipes come clean.
CLR, Naval Jelly and Evaporust are acid solutions. They have their place, but I never find need.
Last edited:
stickhunter
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Victoria, B.C.
kroil....... 'nuff said.
I've checked all the auto shops and chemical shops that I can think of in Victoria and all have (amazingly) responded with "Never heard of Kroil". Kroil's so highly regarded for so many uses that I'm surprised that it appears to be absent from my community.
Any recommendations for companies (particularly chains) that carry Kroil in Canada?
To the OP, EvapoRust is great for removing surface rust and can be bought cheap at Canadian Tire. I don't know how well it will work, though, for removing rust between tight cracks --- this is the rust that's probably jamming your action. I've use ATF+Kerosene to loosen parts, but it's definitely a several day soak proposition.
Evaporust is NOT an acid, it is a chelating agent. Completely non-toxic and non-corrosive.
It is superb for surfaces that have both surface rust and deep pits because you can leave the steel in a bath for weeks to work on the deep rust but it won't harm the steel where the rust was cleaned the first day.
Canadian_Zuk
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Pickering, Ontario
I just scrambled through 4 pages to make sure I wasn't going to be a repost.
Elglishman.ca got it!!
Arm and hammer washing soda is the best electrolyte, google electrolysis rust removal and build yourself a tank. Male sure you gun is on the positive or it'll be a bigger block of rust. This is by far the least harmful wY to remove rust. You will be amazed, then spen the next week looking for rusted up junk to breath new life into.
Elglishman.ca got it!!
Arm and hammer washing soda is the best electrolyte, google electrolysis rust removal and build yourself a tank. Male sure you gun is on the positive or it'll be a bigger block of rust. This is by far the least harmful wY to remove rust. You will be amazed, then spen the next week looking for rusted up junk to breath new life into.
I stand corrected!
Evaporust is NOT an acid, it is a chelating agent. Completely non-toxic and non-corrosive.
Ok, it is not acid, but what the dickens is a chelating agent and how does it work?
