i recently was given a 1943ish mdl 94 . fella said i forgot to oil it before i buryed it i first soaked it in vineger got most of the surface rust off . i have soaked it in penetrating oil trying to get the screws loose . i have the hammer free and the link moving but can`t get the screws to move . every time i think i have one moving its just my wheeler driver bits breaking ..anyone have a way to get these freed up .
rusty 94 win
- Thread starter sealevel
- Start date
50% ATF and acetone. - dan
- Location
- Western Manitoba
Not certain I know what you mean about "soaking" with penetrating oil - I found that might take "days", not "minutes" to work? It has to creep in under the screw head and then work its way down the threads. Was a time when some would put drop of iodine - would create/cause incredible rust - I do not think those could be undone - had to be drilled out, re-threaded, screws replaced. Not real sure what you are up against.
I had read but never tried - tap in snug fitting screw driver tip into screw slot - heat that screw driver tip to be hot - so screw gets hot - likely expands slightly compared to parent material - then let it cool - might break the rust bond? I have had luck to heat a rusted-on nut - it must expand enough to allow to be unscrewed - but do not know if that would work trying to heat just parent material surrounding an inserted screw?
The strongest part of slotted screw head is going to be down at bottom of the slot - so want snug fitting screw driver that will apply pressure down in there - weakest appears to be top edge of slot - many tapered screw drivers, or sloppy fit screw drivers, will roll over those top edges when sufficient torque applied.
I have used a litre or two of that 50/50 ATF and acetone - not real sure about that stuff - if left out in open for days to work on a screw, can not be much acetone left?? Appears to want to evaporate off pretty easy. But was my impression is very cheap to mix up and use - compared to spray cans of Deep Creep or similar. That 50-50 mix is half of original Ed's Red solution - original was to mix equal parts ATF, acetone, kerosene and Varsol - again, I find the smell much less after out in open - as if that acetone wants to evaporate easily - might work better within a sealed container?? In clear pop bottles, I noticed 50-50 mix would shake up and look "pink" - after several days would settle out and separate - ATF goes down, Acetone goes up - shake again and get same - I do not think those two will actually mix and stay mixed.
Is well worth to try to salvage those screws on a Win 94 - very unique shapes on some - I think sort of US $40 for a set if they are even available to buy any more?
I had read but never tried - tap in snug fitting screw driver tip into screw slot - heat that screw driver tip to be hot - so screw gets hot - likely expands slightly compared to parent material - then let it cool - might break the rust bond? I have had luck to heat a rusted-on nut - it must expand enough to allow to be unscrewed - but do not know if that would work trying to heat just parent material surrounding an inserted screw?
The strongest part of slotted screw head is going to be down at bottom of the slot - so want snug fitting screw driver that will apply pressure down in there - weakest appears to be top edge of slot - many tapered screw drivers, or sloppy fit screw drivers, will roll over those top edges when sufficient torque applied.
I have used a litre or two of that 50/50 ATF and acetone - not real sure about that stuff - if left out in open for days to work on a screw, can not be much acetone left?? Appears to want to evaporate off pretty easy. But was my impression is very cheap to mix up and use - compared to spray cans of Deep Creep or similar. That 50-50 mix is half of original Ed's Red solution - original was to mix equal parts ATF, acetone, kerosene and Varsol - again, I find the smell much less after out in open - as if that acetone wants to evaporate easily - might work better within a sealed container?? In clear pop bottles, I noticed 50-50 mix would shake up and look "pink" - after several days would settle out and separate - ATF goes down, Acetone goes up - shake again and get same - I do not think those two will actually mix and stay mixed.
Is well worth to try to salvage those screws on a Win 94 - very unique shapes on some - I think sort of US $40 for a set if they are even available to buy any more?
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Apply penetrating oil each day or 2 for a week. Then continue with oil but take a brass punch
the same dia. as the screw head & tap it moderatly with a small hammer. MANNY small hits are better than
a few big ones. Use a screwdriver bit that 100 % fits the screw. Push down on the screw harder than
you turn the screwdriver . Example : turn the screwdriver @ 30 lb. & push down @ 40+ lb. + .
Repeat till screw comes loose. If you can not get it loose & you are going to refinish the gun , then you
can go to plan "B" . Plan "B" is to heat up the screw head with a torch to almost redhot. Then most important
is to let it cool completely. Then add penn. oil & tapping with punch again before trying with screwdriver.
Above has worked for me on manny screws. After 10 years working on Heavy Equipment , I usually
started with Plan "B".
the same dia. as the screw head & tap it moderatly with a small hammer. MANNY small hits are better than
a few big ones. Use a screwdriver bit that 100 % fits the screw. Push down on the screw harder than
you turn the screwdriver . Example : turn the screwdriver @ 30 lb. & push down @ 40+ lb. + .
Repeat till screw comes loose. If you can not get it loose & you are going to refinish the gun , then you
can go to plan "B" . Plan "B" is to heat up the screw head with a torch to almost redhot. Then most important
is to let it cool completely. Then add penn. oil & tapping with punch again before trying with screwdriver.
Above has worked for me on manny screws. After 10 years working on Heavy Equipment , I usually
started with Plan "B".
highlander
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Newfoundland
Soak it for a couple of days in stove oil.
Do you mean to say he BURIED it??
Sprayer in Fluid Film and letter sit for some time.
Days, maybe.
Q-tip and sprayer summore.
If those screws are that tight, maybe a wee bit of heat.
Nawt too hawt, nawt too long.
Just warm things up and let that liqwid find its way.
Might take a few tries, but with heat, metal expands and contracts hopefully
taking the bite awf dem threads.
Hamfisst'in chit gits s'pensiff.
Days, maybe.
Q-tip and sprayer summore.
If those screws are that tight, maybe a wee bit of heat.
Nawt too hawt, nawt too long.
Just warm things up and let that liqwid find its way.
Might take a few tries, but with heat, metal expands and contracts hopefully
taking the bite awf dem threads.
Hamfisst'in chit gits s'pensiff.
thats what i mean ...
Penetration oil on the screws and just leave it
Keep adding until there is a rust trail in the oil
Takes a long time but, sometimes it really works
And, the best part is, you don't have to do anything
But wait
Have been real successful most of the time
Keep adding until there is a rust trail in the oil
Takes a long time but, sometimes it really works
And, the best part is, you don't have to do anything
But wait
Have been real successful most of the time
fingers284
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Alberta Cowboy Ranges
That goes against our experience here on the farm for decades. We used Iodine ( tip from a HD Caterpilar mechanic) as a penetrant / loosener on bearings/nuts/bolts rusted for years on equipment shafts. Put a few drops on the shaft and go for lunch, chances are that that bearing will almost remove by hand.
We carried a jar of just plain drug store Iodine on every piece of equipment for years so it was handy whenever needed. I would sure try a few drops of Iodine on that 94'.
- Location
- Blaster land, Okanagan BC
Try soaking it in plain atf for awhile, it works wonders sometimes.
Are you using proper firearm bits. Regular screw drivers are tapered gunsmith bits aren’t.
Using the wrong bits will damage the screw head.
i thought i did but the wheeler set i have just break . i have a set of grace screwdrivers no go so far . i have gotten the link moving and the lever is off . hammer moves and the bolt . i have had a lot of torque on the hammer screw will not budge .
REALLY? Interestingn
Apparently the Wheeler bits are designed to break before damaging the screws. (in case you don't already know) It's a feature, not a bug, right?
Even the best penetrating oil needs time to work. And I'm not sure diesel and ATF are the best. If you want to try something else, then as lots have suggested try heat (carefully).
Do you have a drill press? Not to drill the screw, but to hold a driver bit while you turn the chuck by hand.
Even the best penetrating oil needs time to work. And I'm not sure diesel and ATF are the best. If you want to try something else, then as lots have suggested try heat (carefully).
Do you have a drill press? Not to drill the screw, but to hold a driver bit while you turn the chuck by hand.
- Location
- Western Manitoba
We might be talking different amount of time - going from an elder article by John Barsness - he or his father had discovered a number of old USA military rifles in the attic of a building formerly used as an ROTC training / practice centre - more likely some sort of rolling block action - he still had one - firing pin was frozen into the breech block by addition of iodine - he was writing about finding / trading for a replacement breech block to make that old thing to fire again. From his writing - iodine was used to freeze metal things together - but I am not sure of the time that takes to work - days?, weeks?, months?
thats a grand idea and yes i have a drill press but the mill will work better .
- Location
- Western Manitoba
50-50 ATF plus acetone is written up several places on Internet as a "GOOD" penetrating oil - is reported in some "tests" to be "as good as" or "better than" stuff that is sold in stores as "penetrating oil".
I have mixed up one litre ATF and one litre Acetone several times - into 2 litre clear "pop bottle" with screw-on top - shake well and looks like "pink" - but standing for a few days can see it separate - ATF goes down and Acetone goes up - so shake again - it repeats - I do not think can be mixed enough to stay mixed - so have to re-shake each time that you use it. Because I can buy litre of either Acetone or ATF when in town - I make up much of it here. I apply and use it liberally as general parts cleaner, rust preservative, etc. - I never did any "side by side" testing against other products - likely was "hood winked" by Internet stories about it. There is an acetone smell when used - seems to me that the acetone might want to easily evaporate - does not appear to be dissolved or actually mixed together, unless I do not shake it enough. I find soaking something in it seems to work better in covered container. Can do so, because can make lots of it at a time. I even regularly use that stuff in really rusty rifle bores - put a bung on one end - barrel vertical in soft jaw vise, then fill to brim and put a cap on it - let soak for several days - to loosen up stuff in there - seems to get the "pits" all shiny clean under the bore scope.
50-50 ATF and Acetone is half of original Ed's Red recipe. Original Ed's Red was equal parts Acetone, ATF, Varsol and Kerosene. People who understand organic chemistry (I do not) can explain why the polar and non-polar ingredients are a good thing.
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