S&B or USO for CAF ?

[HKMark23]

Did the CAF switch from USO "good" optics to S&B "bad" optics for their new Timberwolf rifles ? I'm curious as to what went on there. Enlightenment anyone ? Thanx .

Oh, and to not piss off S&B fans entirely, my good and bad labels are just me being political. I know S&B make fine optics .

 

[redleg]

The trial that was conducted called for a "package" to be adopted. The winning bid was the Timberwolf with USO scope. Subsequently the powers that be decided they wanted the S&B scope. I'm not sure why or what the repercussions are wrt the trials. It would make sense to me to run trials on the optics too, but who knows what strings are being pulled and why.

 

[Savage]

Why the CF did not do a trails on all components Rifle ,Scope and ammunition is beyond bizzare it makes no sense what so ever by having a Trials done on the whole package concept

 

[Blackcloud]

The original Timberwolves were also trialed with Gaillard barrels and the finish product is supplied with a chromolly cut rifled barrel. Again, not the same as was used at trials. (info provided, have not had hands on finished product).

 

[TheCanuck]

Why make trials on the scopes when the USMC ran the same trial a couple months before? They pitted the USO against the S&B PMII and the S&B PMII came out on top. Tests were really complete and harsh, and conducted by 8541's, so you know the guys picked what was BEST, and not what was inferior but built in america. They tought if the best piece of kit was the S&B, so that's what they chose as the winning scope, and that's what the USMC bought. If you wanna learn more about the trials, go on snipershide.com and send a PM to Ahoboogershat, he's the marine that conducted the test.

 

[HKMark23]

Why make trials on the scopes when the USMC ran the same trial a couple months before? They pitted the USO against the S&B PMII and the S&B PMII came out on top. Tests were really complete and harsh, and conducted by 8541's, so you know the guys picked what was BEST, and not what was inferior but built in america. They tought if the best piece of kit was the S&B, so that's what they chose as the winning scope, and that's what the USMC bought. If you wanna learn more about the trials, go on snipershide.com and send a PM to Ahoboogershat, he's the marine that conducted the test.

http://www.usoptics.com/sub_pages/scope_model.php?recordID=10

 

[DMCI]

Yep, must be fan freeking tastic!

As the owner of a USO "Canadian" SN-3, the scope that was rejected the only thing I can say is that the S&B must be one hell of a great scope!

I loaded up 200 rounds of .308 Berger 175 VLD Moly (Lapua Brass, F210M, 43.1 Varget).

Last time I shot this rifle was at Eatonville with TankerJim and Jimbo (Cinq Ans, Karate Expert and brass chaser.) At that time the rifle shot 1" to the right at 322 yards with 175 SMK and same load data.

Today at the Plantation range, after entering new BC, ambient weather data in the computer and ranges of 100, 198, and 301 yards as measured by Leica BRF, I fired 5 rounds at each range. In each case the POI was a measured .2 mils to the right except cold bore shot.

Scope is SN-3 3.2-17x44 CANADIAN HORUS. Side parallax adjustment explained slightly larger group at 100 yards initially which measured well under 1" after adjustment.

Results: I would say the Berger performs slightly better than the comparable SMK and with a slightly higher BC.

I came away with renewed confidence in my M40A3, and it was good to get back to a 1# jewel trigger after fiddling around with the varmint rifles which have adjusted Remington factory triggers at 3# which seem OK, but there is no comparison in my opinion.

Windage was not adjusted because of wind conditions. Sensitivity analysis with Horus Palm predicted variation of .21 mils at 90 degree wind of 5-7 mph which seemed reasonable although was not measured.

Resolution of scope was such that holes at 300 were easily observable in scope without spotting scope.

 

[Steve David]

I said it before and I will say it again, both are great scopes, but it is time to take the lead and not follow up the rear on the heals of the USMC snipers. Our snipers have proved themselves on the international stage and it is time to cut the cord and not do what the USMC does, why don't we just cancel the Timberwolf order and have the USMC weapons branch build us a few hundred M40A3's! I have seen both scopes, and both are out of this world, as is the price, but that USO is one wild scope and is what we sould have stayed with.

 

[HKMark23]

Did S&B use a custom reticle designed for the CAF like USO did or was one of S&B's stock reticles deemed adequate.

http://www.usoptics.com/gallery/pic_details.php?pid=281

 

[DMCI]

Did S&B use a custom reticle designed for the CAF like USO did or was one of S&B's stock reticles deemed adequate.

Premier reticles is supplying the USMC a version of theirs and is putting it in the S&B scope as I understand it. This reportedly is the one with the hash marks between the mil dots.

 

[redleg]

Why make trials on the scopes when the USMC ran the same trial a couple months before? They pitted the USO against the S&B PMII and the S&B PMII came out on top. Tests were really complete and harsh, and conducted by 8541's, so you know the guys picked what was BEST, and not what was inferior but built in america. They tought if the best piece of kit was the S&B, so that's what they chose as the winning scope, and that's what the USMC bought. If you wanna learn more about the trials, go on snipershide.com and send a PM to Ahoboogershat, he's the marine that conducted the test.

How about because there are more scope in the world than just the two in question. The countries might have differing requiremnents. The scopes will be used on different rifles. And finally because they ran trials. If you are running a trial do it right. If not, then don't waste time and money and simply buy off the shelf based on other countries' trials.

 

[Savage]

If you are running a trial do it right. If not, then don't waste time and money and simply buy off the shelf based on other countries' trials.

Doing this patch work bull#### of trials means the troops that need this gear get F all. the Idea behind the trials is to get the best equipment that meets the operational requirements not to keep people employed because they are inept at there jobs These rifles are needed for operations in Astan by the time this gets resolved it might be in time for the troops to return home .The US Optics scope had many changes made to meet the requirements of the CF even after the Trials were completed.