S&b pmII VS nightforce Atacr

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Icontractor82

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Hi Guys

Need some help here. I'm stuck between the S&B pmii 5-25x56 and the nightforce atacr. I'll be using this scope mostly at the range. (300 yards) but will also be using for competitions (1000 yards).

My question is it worth spending an additional $1400 on the S&B? Is the glass that much better?
 
with out having looked threw the ATACR. ill put it on par with the NXS series.. so in my opinion yes it is, to me the difference between NF and SB is night and day in lower light situations, BUT they are both high end optics and every ones eyes are different. My buddy swears he sees no difference between his NF and my SBs..

long story short, if you can look threw both, do so. only your eyes will tell you what one if either is better. if not, find the one that has all the features you want and go for it. you wont be disappointed with either
 
I don't have the ATACR but have a couple of NSX , one of which is a 5.5-22 X 56 . I also have a couple PMII , one of which is 5-25 X 56

I'm not going to get into debate about glass ( the ATACR supposedly has better optics than NSX anyways ) since the reality is both these high end scopes have outstanding glass

I am going to discuss feature differences that actually make a much more significant real world difference

First is the ATACR is 2nd focal plane. The PMII is FFP . Either you want FFP or you don't ...that will be your decision maker.

Personally I much prefer FFP and therefore would be deciding between the PMII and the Nighforce BEAST .

I think have a mil / mil setup with FFP is more useful than mil / mil ( or the MOAR recticle with 1/4MOA ) with 2nd focal plane . If you go with recticle such as the P4F with PMII 5-25 , the recticle subtention is fine enough to see at lower mag but not large enough to obscure at higher mag

Secondly, having the PMII "double turn turret" ( especially with MTC option where every 10th click of the .1MRAD clicks is very easy to feel the difference ) is better than the NF setup

Conclusion is the extra $$ is not for "glass" but rather the very useful features
 
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Icontractor82 said:
Hi Guys

Need some help here. I'm stuck between the S&B pmii 5-25x56 and the nightforce atacr. I'll be using this scope mostly at the range. (300 yards) but will also be using for competitions (1000 yards).

My question is it worth spending an additional $1400 on the S&B? Is the glass that much better?
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I have both in second focal plane. The optical quality is about the same. The ATACR has very slightly more eye relief than the SB.
You failed to mention the caliber. Recoil will not effect either but on a large caliber rifle there will be more physical movement of the rifle, so added eye relief may be of benefit. I prefer the ATACR simply because it has a MOA reticle where the SB has mil reticle with 1/4 MOA turrets.
I do not often use my reticle for ranging or hold over, but if I would like to use it for doing so, to have it in a unit of measure I work with would be nice.
 
ultimate_monkey said:
with out having looked threw the ATACR. ill put it on par with the NXS series.. so in my opinion yes it is, to me the difference between NF and SB is night and day in lower light situations,
Click to expand...
Then you would be giving advice based on a total lack of useful information.
The ATACR like the BEAST has HD glass the NXS series does NOT. There is a noticeable difference between the 2 versions of glass that NF employs.
I agree that the SB glass IS superior to the glass used in the SB PM line, but the questions were not about the NXS line.
 
TRG-42 said:
I don't have the ATACR but have a couple of NSX , one of which is a 5.5-22 X 56 . I also have a couple PMII , one of which is 5-25 X 56

I'm not going to get into debate about glass ( the ATACR supposedly has better optics than NSX anyways ) since the reality is both these high end scopes have outstanding glass

I am going to discuss feature differences that actually make a much more significant real world difference

First is the ATACR is 2nd focal plane. The PMII is FFP . Either you want FFP or you don't ...that will be your decision maker.

Personally I much prefer FFP and therefore would be deciding between the PMII and the Nighforce BEAST .

I think have a mil / mil setup with FFP is more useful than mil / mil ( or the MOAR recticle with 1/4MOA ) with 2nd focal plane . If you go with recticle such as the P4F with PMII 5-25 , the recticle subtention is fine enough to see at lower mag but not large enough to obscure at higher mag

Secondly, having the PMII "double turn turret" ( especially with MTC option where every 10th click of the .1MRAD clicks is very easy to feel the difference ) is better than the NF setup

Conclusion is the extra $$ is not for "glass" but rather the very useful features
Click to expand...

We differ in opinions on both mil and FFP but I believe whatever works for you.
My use has exactly the opposite findings from yours in regards to mils and FFP. But whatever, neither of us is wrong, just different.

FYI the SB PM11 does come in second focal plane as well as FFP, I have 1 in 5x25 as well as a 12x50.
I agree with you on the turrets of the SB.

From what we have experienced so far with the BEAST I would strongly recommend the SB if FFP is required. Maybe once NF gets the issues associated with the BEAST sorted out it will be a good scope, but for now........
 
The ATACR and NSX are two very different scopes. Search my posts for ATACR as I have compared them to my PMII's before but in short the ATACR is a great scope for the money. Is the PMII worth $1400 more? That's a hard one to answer, when they were $400 more last year it was a no brainer, now I'm not so sure.
 
Hey Alberta tactical

What's your price on the nightforce atacr? Please pm me price and stock availability
alberta tactical rifle said:
We differ in opinions on both mil and FFP but I believe whatever works for you.
My use has exactly the opposite findings from yours in regards to mils and FFP. But whatever, neither of us is wrong, just different.

FYI the SB PM11 does come in second focal plane as well as FFP, I have 1 in 5x25 as well as a 12x50.
I agree with you on the turrets of the SB.

From what we have experienced so far with the BEAST I would strongly recommend the SB if FFP is required. Maybe once NF gets the issues associated with the BEAST sorted out it will be a good scope, but for now........
Click to expand...
 
alberta tactical rifle said:
From what we have experienced so far with the BEAST I would strongly recommend the SB if FFP is required. Maybe once NF gets the issues associated with the BEAST sorted out it will be a good scope, but for now........
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Turret brakes still breaking on them? Last year all the ones at Shot were toast by the second day...
 
I can't speak for the S&B as much as I would like to try one, but I do own a few NF scopes including the ATACR.
The ATACR is for sure a step up in clarity from the NXS, however the NXS is no slouch either. For me I have never had an issue with a NF scope, so that alone keeps me coming back. Is the S&B worth it with the recent price increase? That's up to the shooter as to where he/she sees the value.
 
I have no doubt that NF make very nice product, but there is a few rules that I follow, you get what you pay for, and buy what proven.
 
Hi All,

One thing that is not clear it is the caliber of your rifle. I do have, NF, Hensoldt, S&B and Sightron.

Honestly, I am a Sunday evening night shooter, but I like all of them.

I have put a Sightron on my 300 WM and even if Peter was not over enthousiastic with that it did the job well and sustain the beating.

You want to have the best of the best of the best go Hensoldt.

Snipers uses S&B. Some Sniper use NForce and Some USOptics.

Just ask Peter Dobson about the new Sightron FF Tactical (I bought 2 from him) and try to tell me the difference with the other S&B and NForce with respect to optics.

FInally, when I go shooting I do not go to war so I take care a lot of all my precious eqquipment.

Regards
 
What is proven is that Nightforce wins more longrange matches than any other. Winners are not concerned with price. Sightron are also very popular with longrange shooters because they work very well.
 
stac50bmg said:
Hi All,

One thing that is not clear it is the caliber of your rifle. I do have, NF, Hensoldt, S&B and Sightron.

Honestly, I am a Sunday evening night shooter, but I like all of them.

I have put a Sightron on my 300 WM and even if Peter was not over enthousiastic with that it did the job well and sustain the beating.

You want to have the best of the best of the best go Hensoldt.

Snipers uses S&B. Some Sniper use NForce and Some USOptics.

Just ask Peter Dobson about the new Sightron FF Tactical (I bought 2 from him) and try to tell me the difference with the other S&B and NForce with respect to optics.

FInally, when I go shooting I do not go to war so I take care a lot of all my precious eqquipment.

Regards
Click to expand...

The Henshold scopes are very good but seriously lack in elevation and have a whole pile of mounting issues.
Like any highly specialized tool , it has its place. In this case on certain rifles and in a few specialized circumstances it has benefits, but like a Lamborghini, not a daily driver. There are WAY better options for the general shooting public.
 
alberta tactical rifle said:
The Henshold scopes are very good but seriously lack in elevation and have a whole pile of mounting issues.
Like any highly specialized tool , it has its place. In this case on certain rifles and in a few specialized circumstances it has benefits, but like a Lamborghini, not a daily driver. There are WAY better options for the general shooting public.
Click to expand...

Do you have a Lamborghini ?
 
Here's the straight goods:

If FFP isnt a top priority then save yourself a pile of money and get an ATACR. Period. They are well built, have great glass, excellent range of adjustment, nice turrets and very useable reticles. In summary; everything you want in a good LR scope except its not FFP.

That said, I firmly believe that the S&B PMII line is the best and most complete line of scopes on the market and the benchmark by which all others are judged. Other makers may have small advantages in specific areas/features but as a compete system there isnt anyone out there that puts together the total package like S&B does.

I have owned almost every high end "tactical" scope out there and have looked through or used the rest. While this certainly doesnt qualify me as an expert I can at least speak from real world experience. I also have no problem calling a spade a spade, if a piece of equipment doesn't meet expectation or is flawed in some way I have no problem identifiing that and expressing it. People tend to get protective about the equipment they own and it seems like if they admit that it comes up short or doesnt meet expectation that it in some way reflects on them. Case in point I have Zeiss spotting scope that I just bought to replace one I've used for years and right now I am not seeing the benefits of this scope that has a retail price 3x greater than my previous one. I've straight up told my shooting buddies that it was not worth the extra money.

When it comes to optics I think that its entirely a case of diminishing returns. I think one you get to opctics in this tier one shouldnt expect to see monumental differences, rather subtle ones that may or may not be worth the extra money to you.
 
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